Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 (Tek) 9/28/84 based on 9/17/84; site tekecs.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!houxm!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!orca!tekecs!jeffw From: jeffw@tekecs.UUCP (Jeff Winslow) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: Re: \"Why not send the men home?\" Message-ID: <5320@tekecs.UUCP> Date: Tue, 14-May-85 12:37:00 EDT Article-I.D.: tekecs.5320 Posted: Tue May 14 12:37:00 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 17-May-85 00:01:12 EDT References: <1848@decwrl.UUCP> <423@sftri.UUCP> <1467@reed.UUCP>, <431@sftri.UUCP> <480@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP> Organization: Tektronix, Wilsonville OR Lines: 65 > >You know what really burns me about this whole thing? The original > >proposal that started this whole thing was made (I assume) in all > >seriousness. Yet it is (at least, to me) absurd. Yet there has not > >even been one article in this group authored by a woman that treats > >this proposal as anything other than serious. The article I'm > >replying to refers to "doing something" with men. Is this what you > >people really feel? Do you women all really feel SERIOUSLY that > >such a curfew would be a good idea, or at least worth trying? I > >haven't seen anything said that would lead me to believe anything to > >the contrary. How would you all like it if a group of men started > >an apparently serious discussion on the net proposing > >that women who are raped are "asking for it"?? You probably wouldn't > >like that too much, and if you take that feeling and look at it, > >maybe you can begin to see a bit how I feel about this whole thing. > > > >Mark Modig > >ihnp4!sftri!mom > > Mark, you're trying to get us to see the ridiculousness of suggesting > a curfew for men by asking how we'd feel "if a group of men started an > apparently serious discussion on the net proposing that women who are > raped are 'asking for it'". You're right, we'd be pretty d... pissed. > In fact, we *are* pretty d... pissed, because, although it isn't posted > to net.women, men *do* propose that very thing. Why didn't you just ask > how we'd feel if men started an apparently serious discussion proposing > that women be subject to a curfew? Is it because earlier in the dis- > cussion it was stated that men (and Phyllis Schlafly's) *do* propose > such a thing? > > Women are the *victims* here, and the best suggestion that men have come > up with is "if you don't want to be hassled, don't go anywhere where men > might hassle you." Sensible enough. Unfortunately, *they* mean for *us*, > the victims, to live under curfew. Well, we're getting ready to take > they're sensible advice. But we'd like a little better arrangement, thank > you. We'd like for the *offenders* to live under curfew, and *then* we > won't go where they are. We'll go out and party and not be afraid to do > what we enjoy. We have not done anything wrong, and we don't want to pay > for the offenses of others. If there has to be a curfew, why not set it up > so more offenders than victims pay? Why *not* make the men pay more than > the women? After all, they contribute more to the problem. > > What's that? You don't want to live under curfew either? It upsets you to > think that *you* might have to pay for someone else's offenses? Well, no > offense intended Mark, but GOOD! That means there's only one step left. > If I may borrow your own words: "if you take that feeling and look at it, > maybe you can begin to see a bit how I feel about this whole thing." Once > we understand each other, once you feel *outraged* that people who have done > *nothing* wrong have to pay for the actions of some real jerks, then maybe > we can work together so *no* innocent people pay. Until such time, however, > yes, I think women seriously want more offenders than victims to be penalized. > Sorry if that's a problem for you. > > -- > Better yet, why don't we just get all the men on one side of the , all the women on the other, equip them with machine guns, and let them blast away at each other?! Much more harm than good is done by redefining a criminal-victim confrontation as a man-woman confrontation. And it's women that do that. (This statment is just as true as "men propose a curfew for women".) Don't say you're sorry when you're obviously not. Jeff Winslow