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From: jeff@rtech.ARPA (Jeff Lichtman)
Newsgroups: net.women,net.politics
Subject: Re: Ed Hall speaks his mind.
Message-ID: <400@rtech.ARPA>
Date: Sat, 18-May-85 08:02:11 EDT
Article-I.D.: rtech.400
Posted: Sat May 18 08:02:11 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 21-May-85 04:39:40 EDT
References: <385@ttidcc.UUCP> <305@mhuxr.UUCP> <327@h-sc1.UUCP> <2473@randvax.UUCP> <1377@watdcsu.UUCP>
Organization: Relational Technology, Berkeley CA
Lines: 56
Xref: linus net.women:4688 net.politics:8425

> (Originally from net.women, but I decided to put it in net.politics too)
> 
> In article <2473@randvax.UUCP> edhall@randvax.UUCP (Ed Hall) writes:
> >    ...there are a couple of people who are making the outrageous and
> >dangerous claims that:
> >  1. White men are being discriminated against, and this deserves at
> >     least as much attention as discrimination against women.
> >  2. It is wrong for women to be proud when they manage to overcome
> >     discrimination.
> >  3. Wearing ``provocative'' clothing is somehow responsible for
> >     (at least some) rape.
> >
> >Except for one or two mild postings, the net is *silent* in response
> >to these and other such claims!
> 

1) I've heard this one before.  How many times have you heard of a white male
   being unable to get a good job or a good education simply because he is
   a white male?  The affirmative action laws are there because blacks, women,
   and other oppressed groups would not get what is rightfully theirs without
   them.

2) This paraphrase is a little misleading.  Ed Hall's argument was that it is
   wrong for women to be proud of other women who overcome discrimination,
   when men don't feel proud of other men's accomplishments.  First, I don't
   think it is anyone's business how someone else feels, especially when those
   feelings are positive.  Second, it is strange to me that someone can't
   understand pride in another person with whom you identify.  Many women
   identify with other women as a class, and it seems only natural to me
   that they would be proud when some woman overcomes an injustice against
   her, or accomplishes some other positive thing related to the fact that
   she is a woman.  Men don't have this feeling about other men for a number
   of reasons, but the main one is that men as a class don't suffer
   unfair discrimination (except in a few peculiar circumstances), and so
   there are few chances for men to be proud of each other when they
   overcome obstacles placed there because they are men.

3) A woman should be able to walk down the middle of Main Street naked with
   no fear of rape.  I would say that, with the current state of society,
   it would be foolish for a woman to do so.  Some men take "provocative"
   clothing to mean that the woman wants to be raped, or are such slavering
   baboons* that they go into a frenzy whenever they see female skin.  This
   is not the woman's fault, which is what I assume Ed Hall means by
   responsibility.

*Sorry, I didn't mean to insult baboons by comparing them with rapists.

These are too easy.  I guess the reason there hasn't been much net traffic
about this is that most people, when they see such crap, assume that everyone
else knows it's crap, too.
-- 
Jeff Lichtman at rtech (Relational Technology, Inc.)
aka Swazoo Koolak

{amdahl, sun}!rtech!jeff
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