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From: fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann)
Newsgroups: net.politics,net.social,net.women,net.flame
Subject: Re: Discrimination and Affirmative Action
Message-ID: <338@unc.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 29-May-85 12:37:37 EDT
Article-I.D.: unc.338
Posted: Wed May 29 12:37:37 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 31-May-85 06:21:37 EDT
References: <sphinx.566>
Reply-To: fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann)
Organization: CS Dept., U. of N. Carolina at Chapel Hill
Lines: 65
Xref: watmath net.politics:9158 net.social:568 net.women:5391 net.flame:10192
Summary: 

In article <sphinx.566> beth@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (Beth Christy) writes:
>
>The purpose of affirmative action is not to provide "justice for past
>wrongs".  It is to prevent future wrongs of the same type.
>Hiring inequities are a result of the personal prejudices of individual
>hiring authorities.  The only truly effective way to eliminate the inequities
>is to step into the minds of everyone who hires people and eliminate the
>prejudices.  That's obviously a pretty tough task, and even if the
>government *could* do it, I doubt anyone would *want* them to regulate
>people's opinions.  But we *do* want the inequities to go away.  So what
>else can we do but require people to ignore whatever prejudice they have
>and hire a black/woman/hispanic/handicapped_individual?  And then hope
>they recognize that the above-mentioned individual *is* performing well.

But be careful you don't merely substitute future wrongs of a different
type.  It's very tricky to find the right balance.

>>Blacks must solve problems such as poverty and unemployment
>>via economic growth from within their own community.
>>What is needed is a new black enterprenurial class.
>>True black power will be created with the rise of black
>>storekeepers and merchants.  By starting their own businesses,
>>blacks can create their own opportunities, instead of depending
>>on some white "big daddy" to take care of them.
>
>Oh, get real, wouldja?  How the h*ll do you expect blacks to build a
>new black entreprenurial class by starting their own businesses?  Can
>you really see a poor, disadvantaged black woman walking into a bank
>and asking for a loan to start her own business?  Shit, nobody'll give
>her money to do work for them.  Who's gonna give her money for her
>signature?  Get real.

Who says all businesses are created with borrowed money?
What about doing it the way immigrant Koreans, Jews and Japanese did it?
I.e. you take a low-wage job in a small, low-capital business
(i.e. fruit store, candy store, tailor shop, newsstand).
While you struggle to learn all facets of the business,
you pinch pennies for years until you accumulate a small nest egg.
Maybe you borrow a bit more from relatives, in exchange for a piece
of the action.  Then you open your own business.  To save labor costs,
you and your whole family work long hours, and continue to pinch pennies.
You gradually expand.  Eventually the business is too big for just your
family, so you hire cousins and neighbors who might otherwise be unemployed.

>And why do we want a *black* entreprenurial class?
>This whole mess started because we have a *white* class.
>We're trying to get *rid* of segregation here, not promote it.

Who said anything about segregation?  With enough wealthy black entrprenures,
blacks will have the power and influence to give other blacks jobs.

>And if this is interpreted as a handout from "white big daddy", we've
>got trouble.  This is an attempt to get all of us working together to
>make things better for everyone.  *Everyone* benefits when we can
>overcome discrimination and prejudice.  The former "have-nots" get a
>chance to feed their families, and the former "have's" have a new pool
>of talent from which to draw.  And people just get along better with
>each other.

But why must it always be white entrepreniurs giving out the jobs.
If blacks want their share of the jobs, they must CREATE their share
of jobs, as well.  And jobs are created when people open and
expand businesses.

	Frank Silbermann