Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site pyuxd.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!gamma!pyuxww!pyuxd!rlr From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Arthur Pewtey) Newsgroups: net.music,net.music.synth Subject: Re: Drum Machines - A Flame Message-ID: <988@pyuxd.UUCP> Date: Wed, 22-May-85 12:49:07 EDT Article-I.D.: pyuxd.988 Posted: Wed May 22 12:49:07 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 23-May-85 04:35:56 EDT References: <317@mhuxr.UUCP> <979@pyuxd.UUCP> <320@mhuxr.UUCP> Organization: The Chartered Accountants Who Want to Be Lion Tamers Association Lines: 75 Xref: watmath net.music:7637 net.music.synth:282 > > 2) They are fantastic tools for composers working on their own. Though the > > machine I have is a piece of crap (the old Dr. Rhythm), I accompany > > that sound when I record with various sundry other percussion that I > > play directly (acoustic and electronic). [ROSEN] > > > Agreed. The drum machine in this context is similar to the metronomes used > by classical composers and practicing virtuosos. [MARCEL SIMON] That's not what I said. They serve as sound sources in such situations, not just rhythm keeping devices. > > 1) Recognize that often the drum patterns recorded specifically for specific > > songs are often keyed in by studio drummers themselves at the studio. > > In effect, doing this frees them to let the machine roll on while they > > do other things of a more esoteric nature. Tony Levin (at Fripp's > > suggestion) was going to program a DrumTrax for the last King Crimson > > tour, because Bruford was less interested in "timekeeping" than he was > > in experimenting adventures in percussion, and the band felt they > > needed the support. > > 3) I wouldn't knock them wholeheartedly. Even the cheap annoying rhythm > > boxes with "FOXTROT-SAMBA-WALTZ" switches have been used in very > > interesting ways by people like Brian Eno (e.g., "Great Pretender" > > on "Taking Tiger Mountain", and "In Dark Trees", "Sombre Reptiles" > > etc. from "Another Green World"). Groups like Our Daughter's Wedding > > (before they got swallowed up) made great use of such machinery, live > > and on record ("Lawnchairs"), with wild electric percussionist Layne > > Rico flailing away at Synare drums whilst the other machines backed him > > up. > My flame was directed at the use of the contraptions in live performance > or in studios when the final take is being recorded. I don't have any problem > with using them in the intermediary stages of composition (it does get > expensive to bring a drummer over to your house to hash out some ideas :-) > I don't think the flame is diminished (OK, I'll take back the "why do they > exist part) by Eno's creative use of them (I did not know that he used them > on ANOTHER GREEN WORLD) That is not a Peruvian Indian ensemble on "Sombre Reptiles" or "In Dark Trees". Sure sounds like it could have been, though. Or maybe a Martian one... > I am glad you used the Crimson example. Fripp has very clear and precise > ideas on music; they can be summarized in one word: discipline, or to > quote him, "the right to be boring." Listening to his work, both solo > and with the League of Gentlemen, it seems to me that he strives for > rhythmic statism, and carefully contained melodic intensity. This works > well within his tone, which is one of controlled rage (to these ears.) > Quite valid, but in the end, dull. I like the LOG album very much, > but it just got... familiar. Once the general idea is assimilated, > there is not much else to grab the listener. > To stay with the example of Crimson, I find much more *repeated* > pleasure in listening to tunes like "Matte Kudasai", "Indiscipline", > "Thela Hun Ginjeet", "The Sheltering Sky", and "Satori In Tan giers." > It is interesting that in all these cases, Buford prevailed on Fripp > to "let his hair down" and loosen up. Also interesting is that > the majority of these moments occur on the first album of this > edition of Crimson, when the creative tensions between Buford and Fripp > were constructive, rather than destructive. On "Sheltering Sky", Bruford basically tapped out on a log drum. Fripp and Bruford's musical differences, while very important to King Crimson Mark ???'s sound, has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. The point is that the drum machines can be and are valid tools of expression and utility. > In short, I feel your Crimson example confirms my theory, that > drum machines are confining for a drummer intent on rhythmic explaration, > and tend to be useful *in performance* only to rhythmically limited > musicians I feel my Crimson example confirms MY theory. I hope you realize that you sound like the grumpy old fogey who condemned synthesizers twenty years ago, or the organ years before that (How dare they imitate the sounds of instruments with pipes? Unconscionable!). Of course there will always be bozos who use them like toys, but they serve a useful expressive purpose. -- Life is complex. It has real and imaginary parts. Rich Rosen ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr