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From: gilbert@hwcs.UUCP (Gilbert Cockton)
Newsgroups: net.nlang
Subject: Re: More Rational English Spelling (English and Geordie)
Message-ID: <549@hwcs.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 22-May-85 01:11:37 EDT
Article-I.D.: hwcs.549
Posted: Wed May 22 01:11:37 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 1-Jun-85 14:08:04 EDT
References: <298@rlvd.UUCP>
Reply-To: gilbert@brahma.UUCP (Gilbert Cockton)
Organization: Computer Sci., Heriot-Watt U., Scotland
Lines: 57
Keywords: Hadaway n droon ye mazer, ye pa'a stinks

In article <298@rlvd.UUCP> drg@rlvd.UUCP (Duncan Gibson) writes:
>
>Written language is just a representation of the spoken word, which came
>first anyway. The difficulty arises that whoever put pen to paper, or stylus
>to wax surface all those years ago took a snapshot of the spoken language as
>it existed then, at that particular place. 

 No, not just.

   Written and spoken languages are separate systems which tend
 to overlap. Socially comfortable and successfully educated (thus
 many members of our English county sets are excluded) English(wo)men 
 are fortunate in the close correspondence of written English to
 their spoken dialect. Greeks, on the other hand, used to labour
 under the constraints of the `clear speech' official written language 
 which was only recently `disestablished'. Written Arabic is so
 different to the regional dialects that even well educated Arab
 boys generally cannot correctly form all their plurals until their 
 mid-teens.
   Writing is far more of a problem solving exercise than speaking.
 Formations exist in the written language which never appear in
 everyday conversation (in some senses, public speaking is a form of 
 `reading aloud'). The French aorist (passe' simple) is an obvious
 example. Poetic language of course is a further linguistic system
 with conventions and a vocabularily that appear in neither written
 or spoken language. Some features of written language systems may
 have their origins in earlier spoken forms. However still more
 features can only be ascribed to the evolution of a language
 within a historical community of literati.
   I could never have said the above without going `em', nor could I
 have uttered such complex sentences impromptu. I wouldn't attempt
 to say the above, as written, in the part of Tyneside where I grew up. 
 It would neither be fully understood or well received, but I could get 
 the same message across in dialect.

  `Nivor in the world man. Taakin n writins gorra be different,
  why anyone can taak, but yiv gorra be lornt te write. An
  when yer arh lornt, thi winnat let yer write as ye taak, well
  nor unless yer aal lardida aalready like. Mind you, its a lot
  worse fera lorra them foreigners like, cos how they write n
  taaks even more different, ye knaa deed hard wiv aal these
  extra things to gan remembrin. The reckon it was bad in Greece,
  but them Arabs have it the worst. Thiv nee chance iv writin
  proper wi how theyve gorra lorn it.'
  
  `Look man, yiv gorra think te write. This more rules, ye knaa
  what ye can n cannit write, n more words. Why thi lornt us
  bitsa French at school that thi Froggies nivva even say. An
  as for them poems that thi tekkas used to read oot, ye canna
  make head ner tail iv em wivout them explaining every other
  line. Ah reckon folk should say as thi mean n not gan been
  cleva n lossin ye. Aye, ah knaa some iv its from the olden days
  like, burra lorriv its just been made up to look cleva.'

 `Noo if me college tutor could hear is now, 'e'd reckon 'e'd
 wasted all ees time on is. Cos 'e'd spend aal ees day gerrin
 is te taak n write proper.'