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From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Arthur Pewtey)
Newsgroups: net.philosophy
Subject: Re: Penses
Message-ID: <993@pyuxd.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 23-May-85 09:55:37 EDT
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Posted: Thu May 23 09:55:37 1985
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> The trouble with such a thing occurring is that the phenomena of the
> God's (or god's) appearance would have to be explained by science as
> something occurring within the universe.  In other words: "powerful,
> previously unknown entity 'reveals' self to a group of men with
> accompanying marvelous works.  Entity claims to be 'God' (whatever
> that means).  Scientists now say 'There exists a powerful, previously
> unknown entity which is capable of marvelous works and which claims
> to be God (whatever that means).'  We still don't know whether the
> powerful entity is part of nature or not.  If it is part of nature,
> then it is not God.  If it is not a part of nature, we still don't
> know whether it is God since a God could have made nature and some
> other things as well.
> The main premise in this argument is that God (if such an entity
> exists) is the creator of the universe and of nature (perhaps
> that statement is redundant, perhaps not).
> I still stand by my statement, (which I have revised hoping for more
> clarity), "Science is incapable of investigating claims of beings
> outside of 'nature'.  God is an entity which, in existence, must be
> outside of 'nature'.  Therefore, the existence of God is scientifically
> unknowable."

Depends how you define "nature".  If you use an arbitrary, anthropocentric
definition that limits its scope specifically so that 1) "nature" is defined
as that which is in the "universe" of humans and 2) there is a notion of
"outside" that "nature" that is a priori defined as the realm of a creator,
then you have assumed your conclusions about gods.
-- 
"Ya dee apockety, rum fing f'doo.  Ni, ni, ni, YOWWWWWWWWWW!" 
				Rich Rosen 	ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr