Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site topaz.ARPA
Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!columbia!topaz!josh
From: josh@topaz.ARPA (J Storrs Hall)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Taxes: the cost of Civilization & Democracy: Reply to JoSH
Message-ID: <2176@topaz.ARPA>
Date: Mon, 3-Jun-85 02:49:47 EDT
Article-I.D.: topaz.2176
Posted: Mon Jun  3 02:49:47 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 4-Jun-85 00:33:08 EDT
References: <3750@alice.UUCP> <639@whuxl.UUCP> <2131@topaz.ARPA> <642@whuxl.UUCP>
Reply-To: josh@topaz.UUCP (J Storrs Hall)
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 35

In article <642@whuxl.UUCP> orb@whuxl.UUCP (SEVENER) writes:
>> 
>> Nobody suggests that it
>> is a crime to *pay* taxes--What is suggested is that it is morally
>> reprehensible to *collect* them by force and by fraud.
>> --JoSH
>
>#1)Are taxes collected by *fraud*?  I fail to see how - fraud implies
>   some sort of dishonesty.  For example if the government claimed it
>   was withholding 30% of your weekly paycheck and it was actually
>   withholding 50%. That is not the case.

Sevener has slipped a gear as usual:  someone who is being defrauded
generally knows how much he is paying; the lies and deception regard
what he is getting for it.  Sevener provides a handy example:

>   The majority of citizens apparently believe that it is worthwhile to
>   fund better schools, libraries, parks, roads and all the many services
>   provided by government. That is the way democracy works.
...
>As Oliver Wendall Holmes said, "Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized
>society"
>Personally I prefer civilization to the law of the jungle.


>   Nobody *forces* citizens to approve tax referenda - 

Nobody was talking about referenda.  Sevener is apparently unable to
realize that someone can vote against a tax law, or not vote at
all because all candidates for a given representational spot
favor the tax, and still be forced to pay at gunpoint.

>          tim sevener   whuxl!orb

--JoSH