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From: tonyw@ubvax.UUCP (Tony Wuersch)
Newsgroups: net.politics.theory
Subject: Re: What is "capitalism"?
Message-ID: <183@ubvax.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 29-May-85 23:32:57 EDT
Article-I.D.: ubvax.183
Posted: Wed May 29 23:32:57 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 2-Jun-85 07:44:49 EDT
References: <441@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP> <1831@topaz.ARPA> <1008@uwmacc.UUCP> <2876@sdcc3.UUCP>
Organization: Ungermann-Bass, Inc., Santa Clara, CA
Lines: 74
Summary: soc or cap is not an either/or between two extremes; this has been said before ...

In article <2876@sdcc3.UUCP>, ec120bgt@sdcc3.UUCP (ANDREW VARE) writes:
> > development.  Then capitalism is revealed as "merely a historical
> > necessity, a necessity for the development of productive power from a
> > definite historical starting-point or basis, but in no way an
> > *absolute* necessity of production," according to comrade Karl.
> > [*Grundrisse*]
> > 
> > Richard Carnes
> 
> The difference then becomes: Does the government know best how to
> plan the wealth allocation? Or do we think each citizen is rational
> enough to excersize his/her own market decisions? Perhaps more
> meaningfully, do we allow the government to control technology
> access, means of production, etc. and sacrifice the freedoms now in
> our posession for potential economic growth?
> Am I making sense?
> 
> Andrew T. Vare

The above statement from Rich is coyly unrevealing about whether a
particular alternative to capitalism would really be better.  It just
says that alternatives are possible, with an implication that some
alternative might avoid the usual systemic prejudices to which most
capitalisms fall prey.

Of course, the strategic question of how to get there from here gets
shortest shrift in the academic world.  Leave that to the neo-Leninists
(any around?).  Andy's questions are apropos here, but I don't think
they make much pragmatic sense.  That is, they're more rhetorical "I know
the answer, do YOU?" than constructive.

However ... let's belabor the point again.

"Does the government know best ..."  Answer no?  I'd say it DEPENDS both
on the government AND the (survey, feedback, etc.) information it's getting
or collecting.  And if you think all governments are bad, then I sure don't
want you in my government.  You'll be the first to go corrupt, according
to the social scientists (a lesson for the Reaganauts).  Let's have some
realistic optimism here, eh?  Good government exists in MANY countries,
East and West.

"Or do we think each citizen is rational enough to excersize(sp) his/her own
market decisions?"  "We"?  Is that a rhetorical flourish?  Leave me out.
I'm not rational enough to choose between Excedrin and Anacin.  Are you?
(But I don't like the new Coke -- I know that)

I don't WANT to make every decision and take every risk in my life.  A lot
of these decisions are a BIG waste of my time when they could be made by
others with more information, wisdom, and increasing returns to scale.
That's a fully rational wish of MINE that this government won't let me
make.  Where's the market in governments?

Obviously, the answer to the above "rational" question is undecidable on
a general basis.  It depends upon the particular market and the particular
good.  But wherever the answer is NO, I'd like to see some other body make
a decision -- either help me out or kick me in the butt.  I guess that
makes me a socialist.

(Some days, I think most people are greedy, lazy and stupid, but capitalism
only helps the greedy ones.  Ideals run amuck.  Which is the cynic here? :-))

The last of these "questions" begging for obvious answers is whether
we want to sacrifice our freedoms to determine our technology and
mode of production to some alien government authority.  There's that "we"
again!  And an "our" too.  Here it's nationalism run amuck.  Lacking a
big wad of bucks or demand credits in a bank, I'd have more "freedom" to
determine our technology or our mode of production in (almost)ANY socialist
economy than in this one.  I have NO freedom to determine or to meaningfully
participate in these big kinds of decisions under US-style capitalism.

Do I want that kind of freedom?  Sure.

Tony Wuersch
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