Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site scgvaxd.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!ihnp4!pesnta!pertec!scgvaxd!dan From: dan@scgvaxd.UUCP (Dan Boskovich) Newsgroups: net.religion.christian Subject: Re: Evidences for Religion Message-ID: <332@scgvaxd.UUCP> Date: Thu, 30-May-85 15:00:51 EDT Article-I.D.: scgvaxd.332 Posted: Thu May 30 15:00:51 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 1-Jun-85 01:58:08 EDT References: <509@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP> <2054@topaz.ARPA> <330@scgvaxd.UUCP> <331@scgvaxd.UUCP> Reply-To: dan@scgvaxd.UUCP (PUT YOUR NAME HERE) Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA Lines: 106 Summary: Evidence For The Historical Jesus Cornelius Tacitus reports about the Christians in the time of Nero (A.D.64) and mentions that Christ was executed in the reign of Tiberius by the procurator Pontius Pilate. Pliny, in his letter to the Emperor Trajan, concerning the "superstition" of Christianity, refers to Christ. Pliny was seeking council from Trajan as to how to treat the christians. Pliny had been killing all he could find (men, women, & children), and wondered if he should continue. Suetonius mentions the expulsion form Rome of certain Jews who had caused a great tumult under the influence of "Christus". (A.D.120) Josephus, a Jewish historian, wrote a history of the Jews which he titled "Antiquities". Born in A.D. 37, Josephus is described as an egoist, motivated by self-interest, and a flatterer of the Romans. One statement in "Antiquities" gives an account of Herod's action in killing John The Baptist, which supports the validity of the Gospel records. Another passage makes specific statements about Jesus. Here it is: "Now about this time arose Jesus, a wise man, if indeed he should be called a man. For He was a doer of marvellous deeds, a teacher of men who receive the truth with pleasure, and he won over to himself many Jews and many also of the Greek nation. He was the Christ. And when on the indictment of the principal men among us Pilate had sentenced Him to the cross, those who had loved him at the first did not cease; for He appeared to them on the third day alive again. The divine prophets having foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning Him. And even now the tribe of Christians named after Him is not extinct. A third passage in Antiquities mentions Jesus in connection with James, His brother, whose murder by the Sanhedrin Josephus describes. There are also statements concerning Jesus in Josephus' work, "The Jewish Wars". Josephus is the principle source for Jewish history between 100 B.C. and 100 A.D. Recent archeological discoveries at Qumran and Masada have indicated that the accounts of Josephus are remarkably accurate and rank him as a topographer. His writings also speak of other Gospel personalities such as Herod, Pilate, Agrippa, Felix, etc. Arnold Toynbee rates him among the first five greatest Hellenic (Greek) historians, along with Herodotus, Thucydides, Polybius, and Xenophon. There are several references to Jesus in the Jewish Talmud. This Talmud is an extra-biblical sacred book of the Jews. It contains the record of laws and traditions which were not recorded in the Old Testament. The Talmud was compiled between the last century B.C. and the early second century A.D. It was completed by Rabbi Judah ha-Nasi in A.D. 135-217. The references in the Talmud demonstrate some knowledge of Jesus as a historical figure but gives some indication of the scorn with which Rabbi's regarded him. For example, one passage refers to the hanging of Jeshu of Nazareth and mentions his practice of sorcery. Another refers to five disciples of Jesus by name, but none of the names coincide with the Gospels. Another passage describes a proselyte calling up the spirit of Jesus by spells while another refers to a man "born of a woman" who was to arise and "make himself God", against whom people were warned. There is a reference to Him departing and coming again. One portion warns that this man will lead the whole world astray. In two sayings there are descriptions of Jesus reflecting Jewish ridicule of the Virgin Birth. Lucian of Samosata was a satirist of the second century, who spoke scornfully of Christ and the Christians. Thallus, a Gentile writer of A.D. 52, mentions Christ. However, his writings have disappeared and we only know of them from fragments cited by other writers. A letter from a prisoner named Mara Bar-Serapion to his son Serapion, dated about A.D. 75, is preserved in the British Museum. In the letter Mara mentions the deaths of Socrates, Pythagoras, and Christ: "What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgement for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King? It was just after that that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: the Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die for good; he lived on in the teaching of Plato. Pythagoras did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise King die for good; He lived on in the teaching which He had given." The Encyclopedia Britanica, concerning the testimony of the many independant secular accounts of Jesus of Nazareth, records the following: "These independant accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus, which was disputed for the first time and on inadequate grounds by several authors at the end of the 18th, during the 19th, and at the beginning of the 20th century." Enc. Brit. 15th Ed. 1974.