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From: meth@csd2.UUCP (Asher Meth)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Controlling one's ([homo]sexual) urges and Halakha
Message-ID: <3780054@csd2.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 22-May-85 17:01:00 EDT
Article-I.D.: csd2.3780054
Posted: Wed May 22 17:01:00 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 24-May-85 08:28:18 EDT
References: <1672@cornell.UUCP>
Organization: New York University
Lines: 48

David Esan quotes :
>> Surely the prohibition and punishment given from the mouth of G!d
>> has precedence over ANY interpretation found in the Talmud.  Perhaps
>> we are spending far too much time studying the wisdom of men and not
>> enough time obeying the word of God.

David Esan comments :
>This obviously is not true.  Once the Torah was given to man it was up to
>man to interpet it, even(!) if it was incorrect.

>There is a terrific story in the Talmud of the argument of two rabbis in
>the Sanhedrin over a point of law.  The Sanhedrin had voted for one, and
 .......
>The point remains that the Talmud is the interpretation of the Torah, and
>is the point we follow.

---------------------

It is true that "lo bashamayim hee" - it is not in the heavens, and that we
base halachic decisions on the logic processes of man, even against heavenly
signs (such as, moving rivers, falling walls, voices from heaven; as quoted in
the above-mentioned story, also found in a few other places in the Talmud).
However, just so that people out there don't make erroneous conclusions from
what David wrote - all halachic decisions, and the whole halachic process
itself, must be firmly based in "masorah", the accepted line of teachings from
CHaZaL (our great rabbis of blessed memory).

As far as man's right, nay, obligation, to interpret the Torah (according to
the "masorah", of course), "even if it was incorrect" goes a little too far. We
have among our teachings that HaShem will not allow an incorrect
teaching/interpretation to be taught and accepted as part of the "masorah". In
fact, this concept of "protection" of the great rabbis extended in some cases
to even their animals (the rabbi about whom the story is told was REALLY
great). The story that is brought down (as related in the Talmud) is that the
donkey of one of the rabbis would not eat from grain put before it unless the
grain had had the tithings tithed (terumoh, ma-aser, etc.). This was due to the
greatness of this particular rabbi.

Lest someone try to extrapolate/infer from the above that "there they go again,
saying that the great rabbis were superhuman, infallible, never made a mistake
in their lives", I am NOT saying that. However, when it comes to learning Torah and
interpretting it, THEY are the "chachmei hakabbalah vehamesorah", the wise men
who have/had the accepted line of teaching "in the palms of their hands".

A gutten Shabbos and A Gutten Yom-Tov to all.


Asher Meth ....... meth@nyu-csd2.arpa ....... allegra!cmcl2!csd2!meth