Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site spar.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!bellcore!decvax!decwrl!spar!ellis
From: ellis@spar.UUCP (Michael Ellis)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Provocative clothing...
Message-ID: <252@spar.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 20-May-85 08:04:26 EDT
Article-I.D.: spar.252
Posted: Mon May 20 08:04:26 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 23-May-85 03:37:36 EDT
References: <186@timeinc.UUCP>
Reply-To: ellis@spar.UUCP (Michael Ellis)
Organization: Schlumberger Palo Alto Research, CA
Lines: 60

>If I told you that I was walking in a "bad" area of town, late at night,
>and had $100 bills sticking out of my pockets, and that somebody
>mugged me, would you be shocked???
>
>Chances are you would tell me: you should have known better.  Now, this
>doesn't mean the robbery was right, and it doesn't represent that the
>society that allows for someone to mug me is protecting me from myself
>
>So why shouldn't the same caveats apply to a women in some provocative
>clothing?  If I have to be careful of not being mugged, why can't the
>women in the see-thru blouse and the tight leather micro-skirt be
>aware that she *is* provoking some sickie out there. It doesn't make
>her the guilty party.....it just means that *maybe* she could have
>avoided the problem by not dressing in a manner that is thought by
>many to be provocative. -- Ross Greenberg

    But this argument misses the entire point of the discussion, 
    and in several ways:

    1. Is `provocative clothing' really an issue here? Can you show
       figures to demonstrate that most women who are subjected to
       sexual intimidation or rape were wearing such clothing?

       No doubt, a woman who wears revealing clothes has increased
       the likelihood of sexual harassment, but does that mean that
       most rape victims were wearing such clothing? From what I've
       heard, all it takes to provoke a rapist is to be perceived as
       a woman!

       Furthermore, talk of `provocative clothing' is frequently used to
       sidetrack the real problem -- loss of freedom and what to do
       about it. 

    2. What the hell is `provocative clothing'? I contend that practically
       anything whatsoever that is `appealing' or `flattering' is likely to
       motivate a rapist, even if that clothing might be `modest' by
       conservative dress codes.      

    3. Your argument fallaciously downplays the problem that women face.
       Yes, a man who has $100 bills sticking out of his pockets is indeed
       increasing his risk of getting mugged. Same for women. 

       But if a man dresses for a party or a night on the town, he
       will probably be ignored -- should a women do the same, she
       is likely to hear crap about `provoking rapists'. 

    As it stands, most women cannot even walk about safely at night wearing 
    such `provocative clothing' as blue jeans and a frumpy sweatshirt.
    The major exceptions I know are women whose appearance is ambiguous
    enough to allow them to adopt a convincing masculine pose. 

    But most women are not tall enough, or have a clearly feminine physique,
    or belong to social groups that encourage stereotypical sexual
    distinctions in style that diminish the likelihood that such deception
    will be successful. 

    Men who fail to understand the loss of freedom that such women
    experience have missed the entire point of this discussion.

-michael