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From: tron@fluke.UUCP (Peter Barbee)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: ``they'' vs *US*
Message-ID: <1027@vax1.fluke.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 22-May-85 19:24:07 EDT
Article-I.D.: vax1.1027
Posted: Wed May 22 19:24:07 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 24-May-85 02:09:22 EDT
References: <186@timeinc.UUCP>
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
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>So why shouldn't the same caveats apply to a women in some provocative
>clothing?  If I have to be careful of not being mugged, why can't the
>women in the see-thru blouse and the tight leather micro-skirt be
>aware that she *is* provoking some sickie out there. It doesn't make
>her the guilty party.....it just means that *maybe* she could have
>avoided the problem by not dressing in a manner that is thought by
>many to be provocative. 

The problem I have with this is that I don't think the sickies' minds
work the same as mine, or yours.  I do know the provocative clothing
can incite lustful thinking within myself (yes, it's true, I do lust
in my heart also |-) and I would imagine that other men have experienced
this phenomena.  It is part of looking at women as sex objects I guess,
but is not (I hope) particularly evil or dehumanizing by itself.

I don't think that rape starts as lustful thoughts, I think it starts with
demented thoughts of power and aggresion - thoughts that the victim probably
has nothing to do with.  It is conceivable there is a corelation between
how women dress and which ones the sickies decide to rape but my guess is
that it is second order at best.  I'm virtually positive that the situation
where a man sees a provocatively clad women and then decides, on that basis,
to rape her, is extremely rare.

When I worry about being mugged, I don't worry about walking down the "wrong"
street with bills dangling from my pockets, I worry about situations that I
can't avoid.  All of us are at some risk as regards mugging, but if we get
mugged it is because someone wanted our money (or other possesion).  But
a woman is at risk regarding rape because someone wants to dominate her
because of what she is (a woman) rather than what she has (money).
Furthermore, all too often this dominator turns out to be a man the woman 
knows, and perhaps even respected.  How do like it when your friend steals
from you?

The question of provocatation just seems pointless in the big picture.

Peter Barbee

P.S.  The question of lustful thoughts is interesting, maybe it is a good
      topic to once again try to start up mail.men.