Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site randvax.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!hplabs!sdcrdcf!randvax!edhall
From: edhall@randvax.UUCP (Ed Hall)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: Society and Rape
Message-ID: <2487@randvax.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 20-May-85 12:49:11 EDT
Article-I.D.: randvax.2487
Posted: Mon May 20 12:49:11 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 25-May-85 07:15:23 EDT
References: <5492@ucla-cs.ARPA>
Organization: Rand Corp., Santa Monica
Lines: 50

> I claim that the 1 in 3 college freshmen who would rape a woman if they
> thought they could get away with it (and *really*should* know better)
> for the most part would also hire a prostitute if she didn't charge much
> and he knew she wasn't a cop.  I claim that most of these ignoramuses
> really want sex, not to humiliate a woman.  Rapes committed by such people
> as these can be most easily prevented simply through education programs.

I think you are missing the point entirely: there is something very, very
wrong in a society where a sizeable percentage of men would rape ``if they
could get away with it''.  We aren't talking sex, here, but A TOTAL
DISREGARD FOR THE WOMAN INVOLVED.  Yet you talk about rape here as if it
were merely some nasty form of masturbation.

All the arguments I've seen excusing this 1-out-of-3 finding seem to
miss the point--it doesn't matter one whit whether or not these men
would rape if they actually had the opportunity.  The ghastly thing
is that they even could conceive of themselves raping.  Not fantasizing
about it, but *doing* it.

> Old statement:  "Humans were not given fire; we took it."  I suggest that
> the answer to rape is for all women, and I do mean all women, to take a
> line of action that is essentially small, but will make raping women
> *extremely*dangerous* or at least difficult.  One friend of mine, a
> woman, suggested that if women had evolved functional teeth in their
> labia, rape wouldn't be a problem.  This is exactly the kind of thing
> that would work; unfortunately, no such thing.  Any ideas?

There is NO solution other than changing men's attitudes towards women.
This cannot be repeated too much.  Why make women responsible for stopping
rape?  This is not to suggest women shouldn't take precautions, but your
``suggestion'' seems to be that this is some sort of solution to the
problem.  It's not.  It is no more of a ``solution'' than a curfew for
men.

I'd respond more, but quite honestly I doubt I could show much restraint.
When I read your article, with what seemed to be an incredibly andro-
centric view of rape, complete with some of the same myths and apologia
that have plagued this issue for so long, I was quite literally shaking
and speachless.  The lurid speculations about the ``pleasurable addiction''
of being a rapist didn't help.  To your credit, you accurately portray
some of the outcomes of the existance of rape in society.  And I have
to give you the benifit of the doubt and assume that you really are
searching for a better understanding of just what rape is.

> -fini-
> 
> Eric McColm

		-Ed Hall
		decvax!randvax!edhall