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From: london@oddjob.UUCP (David London)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Men: you are not individuals
Message-ID: <756@oddjob.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 28-May-85 18:04:07 EDT
Article-I.D.: oddjob.756
Posted: Tue May 28 18:04:07 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 30-May-85 03:01:14 EDT
Distribution: net
Organization: U. Chicago, Astronomy & Astrophysics
Lines: 40

<>
Recently, there have been numerous articles by men discussing the idea that
they want to be treated as individuals. On 'discrimination against white men'
we had the argument that "I didn't do these horrible things to blacks and
women", or "I haven't reaped the benefits that you claim I have". We have
also had the objections to the phrase 'Men do ...', in which some men would
prefer the phrase "Some men do...". I'd like to address this idea (yes I know
it's net.WOMEN, but bear with me).

I used to object to the "Men do..." phrase too, resenting the idea that I was
lumped in with all these horrible people who do terrible things which I don't
believe in and have never done. I wanted to be treated and addressed as an
individual. But recently I've come to the realization that I am NOT an 
individual; although my friends and family treat me as such, society does not.
Whether I like it or not (or know it or not), society treats me as a (white)
man. This has lots of effects. I'm given the wine list at restaurants; I'm
given preference for certain jobs; I'm expected to be interested in sports, 
etc. etc. Whether for good or for bad, I am not an individual - I live, work
and interact with other people - I do *NOT* live on an island. Consequently,
just as I have to accept (to a certain degree, at least) the way society
treats me just because I am a man, I have to take responsibility for being
a member of that group of individuals called men. So now I no longer object
to the phrase "Men do...". One *can* describe a large group of people by a
number of characteristics, some good and bad. What I really was doing before
was accepting the "good" characteristics, but refusing to acknowledge the bad
characteristics (the way men treat women, blacks, etc..). And you can't
do that. So now I accept the fact that, in society's eyes, I am a man, and
thus am also responsible for the actions of other men (in the sense that I
have to fight against the "bad" things other members of my group do to other
people). So I have no objections to the phrase "Men do ..."; I also recognize
that, whether I personally have or not, men have benefited for years at the 
expense of blacks and women, and I have to work to change this.

So, I say to you men: you are *not* individuals. Society treats you as men,
which, in most cases, has benefited you. Be willing to accept (in part) the
blame for what other members of the group "men" do. And work to change men's
attitudes towards women, blacks, etc.

					David London
					..!ihnp4!oddjob!london