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From: js2j@mhuxt.UUCP (sonntag)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: Men: you are not individuals (Bull!)
Message-ID: <895@mhuxt.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 30-May-85 09:54:05 EDT
Article-I.D.: mhuxt.895
Posted: Thu May 30 09:54:05 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 31-May-85 04:47:07 EDT
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Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill
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> > From: js2j@mhuxt.UUCP (sonntag)
> >     I will never accept the blame for someone else's actions, 
> > 	nor allow anyone to accept the blame for mine. 
> >     People are individuals, and they must be treated as such.  Treating them
> > as groups of faceless automata fullfilling societally defined roles is cruel,
> > unfair, and exactly the kind of behavior which the feminist movement has been
> > trying to change.  
> 
> Yes and no.  The original point was that none of us lives in a vacuum
> (no, not even engineers :-)). 

     Hey, Melinda - thanks for redefining the origional point.  The posting
*I* was resonding to claimed that men weren't individuals, and that we all
should share in the blame for the actions of other men.  I really appreciate
the way you've twisted things around to make it look as though I was argueing
against affirmative action.  Go back and look at my article which you 
replied to.  Did I say anything about AA?  Then why does your reply imply
that I did?  Were you just in a mood to slander someone today?  Tactics
like this are best left in net.flame where they belong.
     Just because I don't feel guilty for things other people have done
doesn't mean I'm against giving women and minorities a fair shot.  Do you
think guilt is the only reason men wouldn't oppose AA?  (I know, we're all
such monsters.) > I won't take responsibility for the
> actions of another, but I'm certainly going to recognize that what
> someone else does can have an effect on my situation.  The fact
> remains that for much of this country's history, several groups
> (classes, you might say) of residents were not allowed to participate
> socially, economically, or politically.  The effects of this are
> still being felt at the individual level, even though most
> individuals weren't participants.  And the question remains -- what
> are *you*, as an *individual*, going to do about it?  Are you going
> to say "Gosh yes, lots of people were treated badly for unacceptable
> reasons and I'm going to do what I can to treat every individual the
> best that I can," or are you going to say "Hey, it's not my fault.
> I'm pulling down big bucks as an engineer, so the system works for
> me.  I think I'll just ignore all this equal opportunity nonsense."
> 
> As a feminist, I'm not asking for privileges.  I'm asking for parity.
> Too bad that we can't get even that without complaints from those who
> *are* privileged.
-- 
Jeff Sonntag
ihnp4!mhuxt!js2j
    "It doesn't matter what you wear,
     just as long as you are there." - Martha and the Vandellas