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From: jla@usl.UUCP (Joe Arceneaux)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: re: last night
Message-ID: <533@usl.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 30-May-85 14:53:00 EDT
Article-I.D.: usl.533
Posted: Thu May 30 14:53:00 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 1-Jun-85 01:06:44 EDT
Reply-To: jla@usl.UUCP (Joe Arceneaux)
Organization: University of (SW) Louisiana
Lines: 68

In article <438@rtech.UUCP> jeff@rtech.UUCP (Jeff Lichtman) writes:
>> 
>> "Hey, pretty lady.  Hey, momma, look over here." He started
>> making kissing and heavy-breathing noises.  I decided I'd had
>> enough, so I turned and told him not to talk to me, very
>> aggressively.  He paused, somewhat taken aback, then continued.
>> "Hey, look over here.  Look at my cock.  Hey, lady, look."
>> 
>> I repeated it.  "DON'T TALK TO ME. WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS
>> OFFENSIVE AND DEGRADING.  DON'T TALK TO ME LIKE THAT.  DON'T
>> TALK TO ANY WOMAN LIKE THAT!"  I kept repeating it.
>
>Of course this was ineffective.  It didn't do a good job of showing
>your anger.  The guy probably didn't even understand the words
>"offensive and degrading".  If he did, they weren't effective on
>him because they were TOO INTELLECTUAL.  Besides, the guy probably
>WANTED to be offensive and degrading.

If you want someone to understand you, speak to them in their own language.

>...enough when it comes to protecting themselves.
>to invalidate your feelings, but I doubt it.  Lets hope you are wrong on
>this one.  One thing I would like you to think about, though: how would
>most men you know react if they were in the car with you the night that
>this happened?

Let me change that to, how would most men react to being in Ellen's position?

I can certainly sympathize with being in a helpless position, but then
I don't really feel that Ellen's position was helpless.  First, she could
have responded as Jeff Lichtman pointed out in his article.  Secondly, I
feel that such a situation need not neccessarily be interpreted as an 
affront.  Of course it may be difficult to achieve such an attitude,
depending on one's upbringing, or what ever.  But let me use my own
experiences as an example.

Having several gay friends, I sometimes find myself in an overwhelimingly
gay environment where I have been frequently propositioned (gay society
seeming to me to be much more forward, sexually, than straight) and 
occaisionally accosted.  Not being gay or bi myself, these propositions
have little interest to me but I prefer to look upon them as compliments
rather than insults.  Now I know this is not the same as Ellen's incident,
so here is another.

On my way between home and school is a fairly wild (for this town) bar where
the patrons frequently congregate in small groups on the front steps.  One
night whilst on my way to school, a woman on the steps yelled out to me,
"Hey, cute boy!" and when I looked over at her she raised her shirt and
bared her breasts to me.  I was rather surprised, but this brought a smile
to my face and I laughed about it for several days thereafter.  I found the
whole thing rather amusing and told all my friends about it.

So, it would seem that I would be one of those men who would be likely to
excuse the exibitionist, not because I invalidated the woman's feelings, but
because the event wouldn't seem as serious to me.  I can see only one
significant difference between the event I just recounted and Ellen's,
which is that being male, the thought of rape would never enter my mind
as a possible consequence of such an event, whereas a woman would be much
quicker to feel herself as attacked, be it only verbal.

Forgive me if my position seems unsympathetic, but I'm willing to consider
any oversights or gross genearlizations anyone can find in my remarks.

-- 
				    Joe Arceneaux

				    Lafayette, LA
				    {akgua, ut-sally}!usl!jla