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From: london@oddjob.UUCP (David London)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: re: re: re: Society and Rape
Message-ID: <767@oddjob.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 31-May-85 15:55:09 EDT
Article-I.D.: oddjob.767
Posted: Fri May 31 15:55:09 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 1-Jun-85 02:39:31 EDT
Distribution: net
Organization: U. Chicago, Astronomy & Astrophysics
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>>Eric (I must have missed this article)
> Jeff Winslow

>> As men, our guilt is collective if we continue to do nothing to end rape.

>No, our *guilt* is non-existent, but our *responsibility* may well be
>collective. It's a distinction that is useful when you're trying
>to get someone to cooperate with you (as opposed to just beating them,
>verbally or otherwise, about the head and shoulders).

Agreed, but it's tough to find a word - guilt, blame, responsibility all
have different connotations to different people. In any event, I do agree
with the sentiment of "collective responsibility".

>> None of us are free of it, and the argument that "I have never raped a
>> woman" is no defense.  We benefit materially by our collective domination
>> over women, whether by design, or by a conspiracy of societal forces that
>> our male ancestors initiated.

>We DO ????????????????????????????? I see no benefit to any man who cares
about women.

No, I agree with Eric - we do. Two examples: if you and a woman apply for
a job and the woman is turned down just because she is a woman, you get
the job. This happens all the time, and, if you were in this situation,
you would never know about it. Secondly, although I don't know what
profession you're in, it's likely you are in a scientific field of some
sort (at least I assume - tektronix?). When you were growing up, girls
were discouraged from pursuing areas of a scientific bent, so you had
a better opportunity to get where you are today (for all I know, you may
not think it's such great shakes :-). I'm sure you can think of many
such examples.

					David London
					..!ihnp4!oddjob!london