Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84 exptools; site ihlpg.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!ihnp4!ihlpg!sed408 From: sed408@ihlpg.UUCP (s. dugan) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: (Contains some explicit text *NOT* for weak-stomached readers) Message-ID: <544@ihlpg.UUCP> Date: Fri, 31-May-85 11:53:42 EDT Article-I.D.: ihlpg.544 Posted: Fri May 31 11:53:42 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 1-Jun-85 02:52:57 EDT References: <560@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 113 > > In Message <697@burl.UUCP> geoff@burl.UUCP (geoff) writes: > >> > >> I am not trying to defend the rapist. The rapist is a low-life that > >> no longer deserves life (in my opinion, and I will *not* get into > >> capital punishment arguments here!). > >> > > > >That's ok, I will. (I agree with you up to the last line, though). > > > >I very strongly oppose capital punishment for rape cases. > >I can just about (big waffle here) accept it for first-degree murder. > > > >I cannot equate rape with murder. It is very bad, but murder is worse > >(it is hard to recover from being murdered). [...] > > > > geoff sherwood > > Geoff, have you ever actually discussed rape with a woman who has been > raped? I know a woman who was raped when she was 12 years old. She's > 26 now, is in and out of mental institutions, and not a day has gone by > that she hasn't thought about the rape and considered suicide. > > I know another woman who was raped by her boyfriend in college. It's > been 6 years now, and she's just now beginning to be able to be > physically close to her (new) boyfriend. Nowhere near being able to > make love with him, but she's able to let him hold her in his arms. > But not a day has gone by that she hasn't thought about the rape and > considered suicide. > > 2 out of 2 women that I care about have found it pretty damn hard to > recover from rape, too. Me, I've never been raped. I don't think I > *really* know what it means. But I know that if I'm ever threatened > with rape I'll fight so hard they'll have to kill me before they can > rape me. 'Cause when I see the ongoing, apparently irreparable damage > those bastards inflict, I actually believe I'd rather be murdered than > raped. I disagree with you - I think rape is worse than murder. And > I'd like to see the bastards die - real slowly. Whether we *should* > kill 'em is up in the air. But I'd sure like to. > > I think you, and most men, are dealing with this issue in the abstract. > I don't think most men really understand what we're talking about here. > My apologies to those men who have gone through it themselves, helped a > friend/lover recover from it, or otherwise come to grips with it. I > know you're out there, but I think you're in the minority. So I'm > gonna ask Geoff and the other men reading this to read the following: > > [*** WARNING: Weak-stomached readers should stop here. ***] > > Most rapes are committed by acquaintances of the victim. So try to get > a picture in your mind of someone you know and trust physically over- > powering you. Fondling you. Slamming you against a wall, holding you > there and scratching your genitals hard with his fingernails. Pulling > your head back by your hair and ramming his filthy tongue into your > mouth. Grabbing your nipples, squeezing them, pinching them hard. > Rubbing his prick against yours before forcing it up your ass, inside > your body. And all the while telling you how much he's enjoying it, > how "good" you are at this, how he *knows* you're enjoying it too. > Asking you if you wouldn't like him to come back again sometime, 'cause > he *knows* you're wanting him. And laughing 'cause you both know he > *could* come back. > > I'm not a terrific story-teller, so indulge me a bit. Really try to > imagine for yourself what it's like to have someone you trusted force > you like that. Then multiply your reaction by a hundred, cause you > *can't* imagine it. > > *Now* maybe we can talk about rape. > > -- > > --JB "The giant is awake." > > Disclaimer? Who wud claim dis? I have several comments to make here. First, let me comment on whether rape is worse/better than murder. I have been raped TWICE. The first was by my husband. (He is now my ex-husband) He used ropes, gags and the whole bit. The second time I was attacked by someone jumping out of an alley at night. I was knocked unconscious, so I am fortunate enough not to remember much about it. These two things happened within two one year of eachother. I was just starting to get over the first when the second happened. To make matters worse, I had just broken up with a fellow (I'll call him Rick) who lied to me about having a vasectomy. I didn't know it at the time, but I was about six weeks pregnant when I was raped. I don't know for sure, but I think the man that attacked me was Rick. He was VERY angry at me for breaking up with him. Anyway, I lived through both rapes. I had my child and I'm very glad I did. She's a very beautiful little girl. She is a joy. I have been through some counseling and talked to may other rape victims. I AM GLAD I AM ALIVE! What's done is done. I can't change that. What I can change is the way I respond to it. If I walk around in fear, pain, anger, I only hurt myself. It's been four years now, and I think I've handled things pretty well. I've had a lot of help from a lot of loving, caring people (male and female). I am currently seeing a man who knows all about it. He has been very gentle and patient. I had gone three and a half years without even kissing a man. When I me Ed, we were just friends. We got very close on a platonic basis before anything else developed. Slowly, but surly, we have developed into lovers. I am not afraid of him. The other comment I wanted to make was that not all rapes are AS violent as the one you described. Yes, I realize that rape is an act of violence and dominance, but there are degrees of violence. My husband raped me because he was sick. He didn't hate me, he hated himself. I was just a handy receptical of his anger. He has since gone through counseling (with me) and as far as I can tell has resolved most of his problems. I seriously doubt that he would rape again. Sarah E. Dugan (no clever lines) -- Sarah E. Dugan (no clever lines)