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From: sunny@sun.uucp (Ms. Sunny Kirsten)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: "Rape is violence, not sex"
Message-ID: <2249@sun.uucp>
Date: Fri, 31-May-85 03:23:32 EDT
Article-I.D.: sun.2249
Posted: Fri May 31 03:23:32 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 2-Jun-85 04:28:27 EDT
References: <601@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP>
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 84

If a man walks up to you and asks to borrow a dollar and you say "yes"
	that is a loan.
If a man walks up to you and asks to take a dollar from you and you say "yes"
	that is a gift.
If a man walks up to you and asks for a dollar and you say "no"
and he takes it anyway...
	that is robbery.
If a man walks up to you and asks to beat you or asks for your body and you
say "yes"
	that is some flavor of minority sexual behavior.
If a man walks up to you and asks for your body and you say "no", and he
takes it anyway...
	that is rape.

Rape is domination or physical assault (be it violent or sexual) WITHOUT CONSENT

> 
> From: sed408@ihlpg.UUCP (s. dugan), Message-ID: <530@ihlpg.UUCP>:
> >If it is true that women wearing "provocative" clothing *may* trigger the
> >rapist, why do little, old ladies in wrinkly clothes get raped?  For that
> >matter, what about little children (male and female) being raped by adults
> >(again, both male and female)?  Men in prison get raped, too.  I think we
> >need to focus on the fact that rape is violence and *NOT* sex.
> >
> >                                        Sarah E. Dugan
> 
> Rape is absolutely nothing but violence...as far as the victim is con-
> cerned.  But there are men who derive sexual gratification from raping
> women.  Sperm is used as evidence in a lot of rape cases, and (correct me
> if I'm wrong, but) there isn't any sperm if he didn't get off sexually.
> I think, at least in the twisted minds of rapists, there are indeed
> sexual aspects to rape.
> 
> 
> Just for a little diversion, I'm going to offer my theory as to why we
> started saying that "rape is violence, not sex" in the first place (I
> know you're all just dying to hear my theory :-) :
> 
> I think there are some men out there who believe that there are women who
> *want* to be dominated, who *want* to be forced, who *would* get sexual
> satisfaction from being raped.  These fellows are pretty clearly poten-
> tial rapists.  Now let's be honest here:  there are women out there who
> are into bondage and S&M and stuff like that.  There are even women out
> there who have rape fantasies (heresy, I know, but true none the less).
> But what's lost on some men is the fact that these women do NOT actually
> *want* to be raped, any more than people who go to see _Psycho_  two or
> three times *want* to find a slasher in their shower stall tomorrow
> morning (did I get the right movie? do you get my point?).  And I think
> the point of stressing that rape is NOT sexual but ONLY violent is to try
> to get through to these dangerous minds that NO WOMAN gets sexual satis-
> faction from being raped, do NOT kid yourselves.  Even the women who do
> get off on bondage and S&M do so *only* in controlled circumstances, with
> a specific lover *of their choice*, when the ground rules (including a
> password that means "stop Now") are *clearly* laid out *in advance*.
> What's exciting to them, and to the women who have rape fantasies, is the
> *illusion* of the loss of control, not the *actual* loss of control.  So
> don't anybody in the whole entire world be deluded into believing that
> there is even one single woman anywhere who would get sexual gratifica-
> tion from being raped.
> 
> End of theory.
> 
> Is the above is correct?  There are a number of people who have posted
> the statement to this newsgroup.  Why are you saying it?  What infor-
> mation are you trying to convey?  In particular, in the quote at the
> beginning of this, Sarah stated the she thinks "we need to focus on the
> fact that rape is violence and *NOT* sex".  I must confess I'm curious as
> to *why* we need to *focus* on that here.  I haven't seen anybody post
> anything to net.women suggesting that any woman might ever enjoy rape.
> So where are we going with this?  What are we trying to get across?  It
> seems to have lost meaning for me, and I want to understand where people
> are coming from.   So comments and clarifications are requested and
> encouraged (but flames singe the hair on my arms and make my office
> smell).
> 
> Thanx.
> 
> -- 
> 
> --JB                                          Life is just a bowl.

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{ucbvax,decvax,ihnp4}!sun!sunny (Ms. Sunny Kirsten)