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Path: utzoo!utcsri!utcs!mnetor!fred
From: fred@mnetor.UUCP
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Canadian participation in Star Wars.
Message-ID: <1044@mnetor.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 18-Jun-85 22:35:37 EDT
Article-I.D.: mnetor.1044
Posted: Tue Jun 18 22:35:37 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 18-Jun-85 23:46:22 EDT
References: <893@mnetor.UUCP> <5642@utzoo.UUCP> <896@mnetor.UUCP> <5685@utzoo.UUCP> <2008@watcgl.UUCP> <5697@utzoo.UUCP>
Reply-To: fred@mnetor.UUCP (Fred Williams)
Organization: Computer X (CANADA) Ltd., Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lines: 70
Summary: 

In article <5697@utzoo.UUCP> henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) writes:
>
>As I've said before, this reasoning indicates that our only rational course
>of action is to surrender to the Soviets immediately.  Why are you not out
>campaigning for this?  For that matter, why are you living in Canada instead
>of New Zealand (which would not be immune to nuclear winter, but would be a
>lot less likely to be badly affected in the absence of n.w.)?  Clearly you
>yourself believe that some risks are worth taking.
> 
	If I may get my two cents in; Yes. Some risks are worth taking.
You should see me driving to work in the morning. It makes the
probability of nuclear war pale to insignificance, although the
consequences of war would be somewhat more widespread. But rather than
surrender to the Soviets immediately, perhaps they should surrender
to us. We do have more fire-power. The case will not be won with
nuclear weapons but only through greater mutual understanding.
In the meantime, there are those of us who simply do not want to
gain from contributing to a system that will lure the US military
into a false sense of security. The safest situation is when both
sides are scared stiff of pressing that button, until someone is
smart enough and powerful enough to take their toys away from them.

>> > As witness the lack of popular revolt against the current situation (the
>> > anti-nuclear marchers are numerically insignificant against the population
>That's a small fraction of one percent of the total population of Canada.
>It doesn't matter what fraction of the public would prefer not to have
>cruise testing in Canada, what matters is how many of them care enough
>about it to act.  Since very few do, obviously most of that "more than
>half" are really almost indifferent, with only a slight bias against.
>
	But you can't say that only the people who showed up at that one
rally constitute the total Canadian support of disarmament. That many
people turning out in one city is impressive, especially in Canada
where apathy usually reigns supreme. How many people were demonstating
in the streets in favour of the cruise testing? Even if it had been
cancelled, how many would really object enough to march on Parliament?
If we divide the population up accordingly, 50,000 to 0, extrapolated
over 25,000,000 ; We may presume that everybody in Canada, with the
possible exception of Henry, was in favour of not testing the cruise.
	Well, that may be a little unkind. Just kidding Henry!
	Actually I rather thought the cruise testing was OK myself. It
serves to keep the Soviet button pressers scared which is half of
our safety,(see above). Maybe now we should offer to test some of
ther Soviet weaponry just to keep things even?

>>   Are you really that confident that Ron would rather give in to the
>Not completely foreign, but damn close.  My point is that "it's only
>temporary" is an attempt to make the prospect of a Soviet-controlled
>world more palatable, and it fails completely because the time span
>is far too long.
>-- 
>				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
>				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

	Yes, it is too long if we are only to think of ourselves. If the
alternative is death for all of the higher life forms on Earth then
maybe a few generations of reduced lifestyle and some political
oppression don't look so bad. But I believe the future will belong
to neither the US nor the USSR. China is instituting certain
reforms which can be termed downright capitolistic. The economy
is starting to move over there. Western manufacturers can get
labour at $80 / month per person. They seem to be following in
the footsteps of Japan, except that they have over a billion people.
Can you imagine what that could develop into in say 20 or 30 years?
If China is given free reign, both the US and the USSR together
won't be able to stop them.
	Henry, do you know where I can get lessons in speaking Chinese?

Cheers,		Fred Williams