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From: henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: egg/chicken chicken/egg chigg/eckin
Message-ID: <5714@utzoo.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 21-Jun-85 13:09:42 EDT
Article-I.D.: utzoo.5714
Posted: Fri Jun 21 13:09:42 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 21-Jun-85 13:09:42 EDT
References: <893@mnetor.UUCP> <5642@utzoo.UUCP> <896@mnetor.UUCP> <5710@utzoo.UUCP>, <704@utcs.UUCP>
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology
Lines: 31

> ...  The same era of western mechanization
> and industrialization was also the same era of child labour, squalid
> (and dangerous) working conditions, below-poverty wages, and all the
> associated social evils of the time.

The era that preceded it (and various people seem to be assuming that
the rise of the West started with the Industrial Revolution, a curious
assumption) was also one of child labour, squalid and dangerous working
conditions, below-poverty wages, and various assorted social evils.  It
was a bit less obvious, because these conditions existed on subsistence-
level farms all over the place rather than in concentrated form in big
cities.

People who don't believe this have no concept of what pre-mechanized
farming was like.  I spent some time (not a lot) on *mechanized* farms
when I was a kid, and we kids worked like everyone else.  The Industrial
Revolution was what ultimately made it possible to *abolish* child labour,
for the first time in human history.  Not to mention more conspicuous
forms of slavery...

People who think that early industrial life was dramatically worse than
the farm life that preceded it should look carefully at pre-industrial
farm conditions before making such strong statements.

It is true that the social benefits of increased wealth	accrued first
to a fortunate few, and affected the working masses much later.  But
increased wealth, not just good intentions, is a basic prerequisite
for better conditions.  Not sufficient by itself, but necessary.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry