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From: rafferty@cmu-cs-edu1.ARPA
Newsgroups: net.flame,net.women
Subject: Re: AA and guilt
Message-ID: <365@cmu-cs-edu1.ARPA>
Date: Wed, 12-Jun-85 21:42:48 EDT
Article-I.D.: cmu-cs-e.365
Posted: Wed Jun 12 21:42:48 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 14-Jun-85 05:17:56 EDT
Organization: Carnegie-Mellon University, CS/RI
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Xref: watmath net.flame:10510 net.women:5794

>> The point is that AA is a violation of the premise
>> "innocent until proven guilty" and that it presumes
>> I'm guilty.
>> (ihnp4/allegra)!alice!jj
> 
> guilty of what?  AA isn't on trial, and neither are you.  If an employer
> ignores the guidelines determined by the govt., they may be found guilty,
> but guilty of ignoring the guidelines, period.  "innocent until proven
> guilty" is a legal concept.
> 
> Now the guidelines were put in place because people WERE guilty of
> discrimination, but unless you are an employer who refuses to attempt
> to implement the guidelines, you aren't guilty of anything.  We don't
> try bigots for bigotry, we try them for something else.  Motives aren't
> on trial. Actions (or the lack thereof) are.
>
> [regard@ttidcc.UUCP (Adrienne Regard)]

But we aren't talking about why people are getting arrested for this.  What
we're talking about is why these guidelines are around in the first place.
These guidelines are meant to be a "fair" way of stopping discrimination,
but are they really?  That is the question.  Are we right in saying that an
employer must discriminate against one group so that he doesn't discriminate
against another?  Are these guidelines fair and valid?  Do they promote more
good than harm?

My answer to all the above: no.  But Adrienne, you don't seem to want to
talk about the validity of the law, just the existence and the unavoid-
ability of it.

----
            Colin Rafferty { Math Department, Carnegie-Mellon University }

"According to convention there is a sweet and a bitter, a hot and a cold,
and according to convention, there is an order.  In truth, there are atoms
and a void."
                -Democritus(400 B.C.)