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From: quint@topaz.ARPA (Amqueue)
Newsgroups: net.women,net.flame
Subject: Re: Women/men and the consumption of toilet paper
Message-ID: <2345@topaz.ARPA>
Date: Fri, 21-Jun-85 17:54:08 EDT
Article-I.D.: topaz.2345
Posted: Fri Jun 21 17:54:08 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 23-Jun-85 04:31:55 EDT
References: <464@ttidcc.UUCP> <465@gitpyr.UUCP>
Reply-To: quint@topaz.UUCP (Amqueue)
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 50
Xref: watmath net.women:6010 net.flame:10692

In article <465@gitpyr.UUCP> roy@gitpyr.UUCP (Roy Mongiovi) writes:
>
>Well, maybe you ought to try wearing the shoe for a little while before
>you condemn it.  Maybe you ought to try understanding what it's like
>to have your gonads poke you in the ribs and say "Hey!  Check out the
>babe over there, she isn't wearing a bra!  Very nice." before you
>insist on your right to let it all hang out and then blame what happens
>next on the man.  It takes two to tango, and none of us are mind-readers.
>Perhaps if we all treated each other as people with strengths AND
>weaknesses (instead of I've got all the weaknesses and you've got all
>the strength) we could reach a common understanding.

I have no argument with your idea of treating people as people. However, 
in your statement about your gonads poking you in the chest, you have almost
totally destroyed whatever credibility your other ideas might have had. 
What makes you think that girls don't have strong physical reactions to the 
sight of aesthetically pleasing men? Girls get horny too, and just because 
dont have an obvious visible physical reaction doesnt mean we dont have the
same desires. But the excuse that your gonads made you do it is immature and
childish, and criminal if your subsequent actions are rape. Your horniness 
does not give you the right to tell me what I can and cannot wear. Nor does 
it give you the right or the privelege to relieve yourself with anyone who
isn't willing. Most men over the emotional age of 12 have the self-control
necessary to live from day to day. Why is sex assumed to be exempt from this?

>Women say they want men who are sensitive.  Well, maybe we'd have a little
>easier time being considerate about your problems if you'd spend a little
>time being considerate about ours.

I got the surprise of my life the day I met a man who refused sexual congress
with a woman he was aroused by, because he knew she was tired and just making
a casual offer. THIS is consideration and sensitivity! THIS is what many women
give men, and which many men expect as their due. I have met only 3 or 4 men 
who are like this.... out of hundreds that I know. Women are supposed to know
when a man wants sex, and exactly what mood he is in, and are often presumed
not to have moods and desires of their own. This is changing on an 
intellectual level, but still hasnt filtered into society yet. 

There are lots of times that I want to make a pass at a man, because he is 
good-looking enough to have aroused me physically. This sort of behaviour is 
considered natural for men, and slutlike for women. And if other men 
observe my attempts, they are liable to assume that I am "up for grabs" as 
it were, and NOT LISTEN when I say NO, loudly and forcibly. This is the 
result of MY gonads poking me in the chest. AND it should NOT happen!

>Roy J. Mongiovi.	Office of Computing Services.		User Services.
>Georgia Institute of Technology.	Atlanta GA  30332.	(404) 894-6163
> ...!{akgua, allegra, amd, hplabs, ihnp4, masscomp, ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!roy

/amqueue