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Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!cbosgd!decuac!avolio
From: avolio@decuac.UUCP (Frederick M. Avolio)
Newsgroups: net.mail.headers
Subject: Re: Why "From cbosgd!cbosgd.ATT.UUCP!chris" isn't stupid
Message-ID: <532@decuac.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 6-Jun-85 10:08:52 EDT
Article-I.D.: decuac.532
Posted: Thu Jun  6 10:08:52 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 7-Jun-85 03:25:31 EDT
References: <1214@cbosgd.UUCP> <515@down.FUN>
Organization: ULTRIX Applications Center, MD
Lines: 52
Summary: Ugly maybe... stupid possibly... Wrong?

In article <515@down.FUN>, honey@down.FUN (Peter Honeyman) writes:

> cbosgd!cbosgd.ATT.UUCP!chris is ugly, stupid, and wrong.
> it's stupid.  if you want to use a domain address, put it in the
> "From:" line, where arpa-style headers belong.  the "From " line
> contains the uucp address of the sender; changing it disrupts
> uucp mail service.

Well, probably nothing in the above (see Subject) line will disrupt
uucp mail service.  The real problem with the example is that cbosgd
appears in two places.  Let us pretend that the address looked like
cbosgd!atthost123.ATT.UUCP!someone.  Now it isn't as bad.

Still ugly?  Sure.  But what does this say.  I have something for a
system (atthost123 is its name) in "domain" ATT.UUCP.  Well, why not
just say cbosgd!atthost123!someone?  Because you are making
assumptions about the transport mechanism in the latter.  In the case
of cbosgd!atthost123.ATT.UUCP!someone, a mailer said "I have something
for a host in 'domain' [I know!  More in a bit...] ATT.UUCP.  I know
that cbosgd is the 'closest' host which handles ATT.UUCP so I'll send
it to them."

> it's wrong.  neither ATT nor UUCP is a domain.  i suspect ATT
> will someday be a domain, subordinate to COM, not UUCP.  UUCP
> is not a domain, and it never will be.  ask your NIC.

UUCP isn't a real live network either, is it?  But it is useful to
treat it as such a times, right?  The idea of domains in the UUCP
world to break down that world into managable parts doesn't have to
strictly line up with the ARPA Internet Domain scheme, and I am not
sure that it should. (Needless to say it can't.) (And anyone whose
domain-base address is u@h.FUN is suspect anyway.... Kidding!  Only
kidding! See? :-) )

> seismo!ucbcad.BERKELEY.ARPA!bob is ugly, and i would argue that
> it's stupid

Don't sugar coat it.  Speak your mind :-).  Yes, but Ugly UUCP lines
will be with us as long us people have systems which can only use
the From_ line.

One last example.  If the above example had been a From_ line looking
like "decuac!hostx.ATT.UUCP!user" the mail would get through.  But
this is not the same as "decuac!hostx!user" since decuac does not talk
to "hostx." But we do know what to do with mail for hosts in "domain"
ATT.UUCP.  Why should a neighbor of ours know the full path to every
site in the world when they can pass it off to a "smarter" neighbor?

Ugly lines?  Sure.  Don't look at them.  They get the job done and can
allow hosts to handle mail they could not previously handle.
-- 
Fred Avolio      {decvax,seismo}!decuac!avolio      301/731-4100 x4227