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From: nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (Doug Alan)
Newsgroups: net.music
Subject: Re: Many thanks for your kind responses
Message-ID: <4449@mit-eddie.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 13-Jun-85 07:57:05 EDT
Article-I.D.: mit-eddi.4449
Posted: Thu Jun 13 07:57:05 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 15-Jun-85 06:37:29 EDT
References: <342@mhuxr.UUCP>
Organization: MIT, Cambridge, MA
Lines: 87

["You cannot achieve the goal without suffering"]

> [Marcel Simon] To Chris Yoder: That irresistibly rhythmic music you
> find so intellectually flat, does it get from here to there? And do
> you want to go there with it?

What is this anyway with expressions like "rhythm is what gets you from
here to there"?  They are totally meaningless!  Where is here and where
is there?  Maybe I like it just where I am.  Maybe I want to move in
rapid little circles about 3.5 inches big.

There exists music containing rhythm machine sounds that gives me what I
want out of music -- a unique, enjoyable, and thought and emotion
inducing experience.  Your insisting that music with drum machines won't
take me from here to there is either blatantly false or then that is
only one of the many things that can make music interesting.  Also, if
there is such a thing as music getting me "from here to there", it seems
to me that rhythm progressions (performed by either by a drum machine or
human) would do a good job in aiding to achieve that goal.

> To Doug Alan: Your posting surely passes the Rich Rosen relevancy
> test.  I don't, however, understand how my interest in grammar relates
> to my interest in rhythm. Maybe you can explain it to me, and to the
> rest of us.  On second thought, don't. It might prove taxing to your
> numerous, brilliant brain cells.

Besides one stray comment in an article more than a hundred of lines
long, everything I said was completely relevant.  You don't agree?  Well
please do tell me what isn't relevant.  Or is it just that there is no
way that you can refute what I have said?  Come on, give it a try -- I'm
sure it wouldn't prove too taxing on your numerous, brilliant brain
cells.  Alas, I must admit, that individually, each of my brain cells is
really a pretty stupid thing.  Seen as a whole, the collection of brain
cells is a totally different thing.  Just like with music.  The whole is
not just a sum of the parts.

And regarding your opinion on grammar -- it does relate in a way to your
opinion on music.  In both cases you demonstrate that you believe that
your particular taste on an aesthetic matter is FACT and not merely just
your opinion.

> To Rich Rosen: Sorry I disappointed you so. I promise to do better
> next time.  I realize now that listening to the opinions of the top
> practitioners of a craft is not useful in defining it. I was also
> mistaken in believing the saying that goes "Anyone in the band can
> swing, but it's the drummer who swings the band." And I now understand
> that you know better than I what may be inferred from my postings.

Well, Marcel, let me tell you that you have completely convinced me now.
I now realize that all the music I liked before is worthless.  It just
doesn't get me from here to there any more.  And if it doesn't get me
from here to there, it surely must be worthless.  I'm throwing out all
my records -- everyone's tastes in music should be the same as yours
Marcel because variety in the world is just way too confusing.

Hey, Marcel, can I use a quote of yours.  I really liked it.  Here it
is:

> So we are now reaping the rewards: when musicians have absorbed that
> the only rule is no rule, the structures they create are based on
> their own creativity rather than on "what the book says".

This is a great thing for you to say Marcel, only I think you got it
slightly wrong.  Didn't you mean to say

	So we are now reaping the rewards: when musicians have absorbed
	that the only rule is no rule except "Drum machines are
	worthless", the structures they create are based on their own
	creativity rather than on "what the book says" as long as their
	creativity follows the guidelines prescribed in books by
	Martin Williams, Duke Ellington, or Marcel Simon.

> Well, let me not clog your CRTs any longer. This discussion has been
> wonderful. I look forward to some more in the very distant future.

Awwwww, come back Marcel!  The net's no fun without having someone to
flame at!

				"I kept it in a cage,
				 Watched it weeping, but I made it stay
				    (But now I've started learning how)
					I leave it open
					I leave it open"

				Doug Alan
				 nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP
				 nessus@mit-eddie.ARPA