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From: rafferty@cmu-cs-edu1.ARPA (Colin Rafferty)
Newsgroups: net.women,net.nlang
Subject: Re: Non-sexist language (historical)
Message-ID: <374@cmu-cs-edu1.ARPA>
Date: Mon, 17-Jun-85 22:30:14 EDT
Article-I.D.: cmu-cs-e.374
Posted: Mon Jun 17 22:30:14 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 20-Jun-85 20:45:40 EDT
Organization: Carnegie-Mellon University, CS/RI
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Xref: watmath net.women:5935 net.nlang:3206

> In article <290@wuphys.UUCP> bsc@wuphys.UUCP writes:
> > I've seen a lot of discussion recently on the problem of what word to use
> > to refer to a person of unknown gender. There are several word pairs which
> > have this problem, among them: 1) man-woman 2) she-he 3) him-her 4) his-her
> > 5) hers-his. #1 seems to have an agreeable solution: person. The others
> > however are not quite so obvious. [...] I think a new word is in order.
> > [...] My nomination ?  Zhe.
> 
> There already IS a word in the English language, used daily, and used at
> least since the fourteenth century, for a person of unspecified gender. The
> problem is that eighteenth century grammarians pronounced this usage as 'bad
> English' (even though such notables as W. Shakespeare used it), and since
> that time its use has been frowned upon in written English (though many
> people say it). That word is THEY, (along with its relatives).
>                              .....
> Now the problem is, that since this is drummed into us from our earliest
> school years as bad English, people find it hard to re-accept as correct.
> I have a collection of 35 quotations, most from the Oxford English
> Dictionary, and I find that hard-line anti-'they'ers are usually convinced
> only by being shown such a collection of notables using this 'bad' English.
> I hesitated at first to post the whole collection, but on reflection I think
> sufficient people will find it interesting to warrant it. It consists of
> examples of the use of THEY, THEM, THEMSELVES, and THEIR taken from the OED,
> plus a few quotations from other sources.
> 
> Steven Pemberton, CWI, Amsterdam; steven@mcvax.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------
> THEY
> 2. Often used in reference to a singular noun made universal by every, any,
> no, etc., or applicable to one of either sex (= `he or she'). See Jespersen
> Progress in Language 24.
> 
> THEM
> 2. Often used for `him or her', referring to a singular person whose sex is
> not stated, or to anybody, nobody, somebody, whoever, etc.
> 
> THEMSELVES
> 5. In concord with a singular pronoun or sb. denoting a person, in cases
> where the meaning implies more than one, as when the sb. is qualified by a
> distributive, or refers to either sex: = himself or herself.
> 
> THEIR
> 3. Often used in relation to a singular sb. or pronoun denoting a person,
> after each, every, either, neither, no one, every one, etc. Also so used
> instead of `his or her', when the gender is inclusive or uncertain. (Not
> favoured by grammarians.)
>
> [ Plus quotes from many authors from various time periods.  All pre-1900 ]

Unfortunately, the problem with dictionaries in general is that they will
list a common usage of the word, even if it is not correct.  You'll notice
that all the quotes are the second or third meaning, no the first.

Problem with the quotes from the "notables" is that they don't necessarily
use correct English, even for the time period.  (Do you ever say "Zounds!"?)
In fact, all the notables you mention are from at least 100 years ago, most
from much further back.  

It may have been correct back then to use the term, but now, it is just the
sign that you want to show that you are not a MCP (or if a female, that you
are a feminist).  The other possibility is that you don't speak English
well.

A main problem facing anybody that wants to introduce a new word, is that
you can't change a language by decree.  If nobody likes a word or a phrase,
no one will use it.  However, I don't what is wrong with using 'one'.

----
            Colin Rafferty { Math Department, Carnegie-Mellon University }

"I suspect that CMU would deny ever knowing me, let alone sharing my views."