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From: bill@utastro.UUCP (William H. Jefferys)
Newsgroups: net.origins
Subject: Re: Evidence, gentlemen.  Not mysticism.
Message-ID: <81@utastro.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 12-May-85 09:58:06 EDT
Article-I.D.: utastro.81
Posted: Sun May 12 09:58:06 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 10-Jun-85 20:23:59 EDT
References: <271@cmu-cs-edu1.ARPA> <315@scgvaxd.UUCP>
Organization: U. Texas, Astronomy, Austin, TX
Lines: 45

> 
>   Design is EVIDENCE of a designer! It is NOT PROOF of a creator, I
>   will acknowledge.
> 
>   You can call it gobbly-gook if you like, but it is perfectly resonable
>   to conclude that design would imply a designer. Webster's thought so!
> 
> 					 Dan

Dan, I know you sincerely believe this, but it's not so.  Webster's
notwithstanding, what you have called 'Design' can be explained equally 
well, and in some ways better (because it has fewer unverified assumptions)
without a Creator as it can be with a Creator.  The argument is extremely
profound and subtle.  It goes to the heart of what can and what cannot
be known experientially.  It's not a trivial concept and I am reluctant
to attempt a summary here.  Please read References [1-4] for an introduction
to the Anthropic Principle from which it is derived.  Refs [2-3]
directly address the issue of the existence of a Creator.

The best one can say is that what you call 'Design' is *consistent
with* the existence of a Creator.  It is not *evidence for* the
existence of a Creator.  Since the same facts can be explained
equally well without a creator, they are also *consistent with* the
nonexistence of a Creator.  It would certainly be bizarre for me
to try to promote them to the status of *evidence against* the
existence of a creator.  Your assertion, viewed in this light, is
equally bizarre.  Both assertions would be wrong.

[1] Gale, George, "The Anthropic Principle", *Scientific American*,
	Dec. 1981, p. 154
[2] Barrow, John D., "Anthropic Definitions", *Quarterly Journal of the
	Royal Astronomical Society*, *24*, p. 146 (1983)
[3] Hall, P. J., "Anthropic Explanations in Cosmology*, *Quarterly 
	Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society*, *24*, p. 443 (1983)
[4] Rosen, Joe, "The Anthropic Principle", *American Journal of Physics*,
	*53*, p. 335 (1985)

-- 
"Men never do evil so cheerfully and so completely as when they do so from
	religious conviction."  -- Blaise Pascal

	Bill Jefferys  8-%
	Astronomy Dept, University of Texas, Austin TX 78712   (USnail)
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