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From: orb@whuxl.UUCP (SEVENER)
Newsgroups: net.politics.theory
Subject: Re: Re: What is "capitalism"?
Message-ID: <652@whuxl.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 10-Jun-85 09:32:22 EDT
Article-I.D.: whuxl.652
Posted: Mon Jun 10 09:32:22 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 11-Jun-85 05:38:48 EDT
References: <449@qantel.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Whippany
Lines: 40

> >                                                      ...  Lacking a
> > big wad of bucks or demand credits in a bank, I'd have more "freedom" to
> > determine our technology or our mode of production in (almost)ANY socialist
> > economy than in this one.  I have NO freedom to determine or to meaningfully
> > participate in these big kinds of decisions under US-style capitalism.
> 
> > Do I want that kind of freedom?  Sure.                [TONY WUERSCH]
> 
> Let me see if I got this right. Tony's chain of thought runs as follows:
> 
> 1. I am an intellectual.
> 2. Intellectuals have more power under socialism. (As opposed to capitalism
>    where a competing elite - businessmen - hold the power.)
> 3. Therefore, socialism is preferable to capitalism.
> 
> Did anything get lost in the the translation?
> Gabor Fencsik         {dual,nsc,hplabs,intelca,}!qantel!gabor   

Yes, Tony's major point was lost.  That point was that under democratic
control one can have an impact on important decisions. In corporations
run by an elite few owners and managers there is no impact.
 
There is also often more *freedom* under public ownership.  For example:
shopping malls, since they are privately owned, have taken it as their
right to deny the public the right of free speech and assembly in such
malls.  Those advocating viewpoints which the mall's management disagrees
with have been kicked out - "we own the mall, we can kick anybody out
we choose, free speech or not".  On public streets there are no such
restrictions - since they are public, the rights of free speech and
assembly must be respected whether public officials like it or not.
Personally I am *very* glad there are still many such places left, as well
as public parks, public libraries, and public monuments and museums.
 
     "As I was walking I saw a sign up
      the sign said "No Trespassing"
      But the other side of the sign said Nothin'
      That sign was made for you and me!"
                Woodrow Wilson Guthrie
 
       tim sevener  whuxl!orb