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From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Arthur Pewtey)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: Remembering the Holocaust: What have we learned?
Message-ID: <1073@pyuxd.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 12-Jun-85 16:44:34 EDT
Article-I.D.: pyuxd.1073
Posted: Wed Jun 12 16:44:34 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 13-Jun-85 03:06:31 EDT
References: <1019@phs.UUCP> <912@pyuxd.UUCP> <262@ihu1n.UUCP>
Organization: The Chartered Accountants Who Want to Be Lion Tamers Association
Lines: 72

>> [Richard Brower]
>> For the record, I am not Jewish either by religion nor by ancestery.
>> Further details on what I am (race, religion, age, etc) will be provided
>> via mail by request only.
> 
> Fine... except your religious beliefs are not in question here. [FRITH]

Oh?  Then why did you make the statement that Brower's speaking out on neo-
Nazis was giving a bad image to Jews as rabblerousers?  See below for more
discussion of Frith's assumption that because Brower spoke out, he must have]been Jewish, and thus leant to others the impression of Jews as loudmouths (or
whatever term he used).

>>> ["Rich" Rosen]
>>> It seems that you are among those who hold this stereotype you speak
>>> of:  if he's an "obsessive loud-mouthed whiner complaining about
>>> bigotry", he must be Jewish.  Given that it would seem that you hold to
>>> a stereotype that people like Black will exploit to turn people into
>>> anti-Semites (read my article in net.abortion/flame on how persuasion
>>> now works as an "art"), I'd say you are unequivocally unqualified to
>>> make statements about what is EXECESIVE in fighting bigotry. [BROWER]

>> Amen. [BROWER]

> And so now you (Rich Rosen) want to silence MY freedom of speech... I see.

Funny, I don't see any statement that seeks to silence Mr. Frith's freedom
of speech.  On the contrary, what has been done is to show that the basis Frith
has for judging what is excessive in fighting bigotry is tainted by his own
little prejudices.  The way I see it, you're still very free to speak out,
only I've pointed out how many grains of salt your speeches on this subject
should be taken with.

> It's strange that you should agree with this statement Mr. Brower since
> you don't seem to recognize that Rich is applying the same sort of sophistry
> here that he condemns.  First Rich tells us what seems to be true (actually
> a statement of his own views) and then makes a cast-in-concrete conclusion,
> based on his original false premises.  He's just beating to death his own
> straw men.

Which straw man is this?  The fact that you assumed that Brower, because he
engaged in "loudmouthed whining", must have been Jewish (an assumption you
made quite clearly when you told him he was giving a bad impression of Jews
to others), bespeaks some of your own innate prejudices.

>>>> You twit.  It's obvious that I'm NOT repsonding to Don Black's
>>>> articles.  I suggested ONE alternative to handle his postings which
>>>> would be beneficial to THE ENTIRE NetNews community.  People like you
>>>> and Rich Rosen have a lot of gaul insisting that I confine myself to
>>>> YOUR subject matter.

>> [Richard Brower]
>> Appearently your mind streches no further than the screen in front of your
>> face.  Wake up!  There is a real world out there that is a whole lot more
>> important than that green screen.  Some of us are interested in discussing
>> that real world.

> Do NOT claim to be replying to my articles or my thoughts when in fact
> you are merely interesting in furthering your own views of the real
> world.  If you want to discuss the real-world, start a new discussion or
> change the current thrust of this one, but DO NOT claim that I am
> myopic because my original article does not address a domain it was
> never intending to address.

You feel that "silence" would benefit "the entire netnews community".  Others
among us feel otherwise, and find your position shortsighted, and have shown
reasons why.  If you can't accept that, if you can't understand the effect
that propaganda of the neo-Nazi sort is having on this country, if you'd
rather see silence than enlightenment on the topic, quite frankly I have to
wonder why.
-- 
Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen.
					Rich Rosen    pyuxd!rlr