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From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Arthur Pewtey)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Re: Refuting Abominable Logic
Message-ID: <1070@pyuxd.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 11-Jun-85 21:52:43 EDT
Article-I.D.: pyuxd.1070
Posted: Tue Jun 11 21:52:43 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 12-Jun-85 20:09:58 EDT
References: <581@sfmag.UUCP> <3780056@csd2.UUCP> <656@fisher.UUCP> <254@ucdavis.UUCP>
Organization: The Chartered Accountants Who Want to Be Lion Tamers Association
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> G!d's word is VERY clear and very easy to understand, at least about
> the basic points like morality.  You have the right to choose
> not to follow the commandments.  You have the right not to believe
> the commandments.  You have the right to not believe in G!d.  But
> that doesn't change the commandments. [LORD KAHLESS]

Wait a minute, let me get this straight.  I have the right (as do others,
I presume) not to believe in god.  But that doesn't change the commandments?
Are you implying "You may choose not to believe in god, but that doesn't
change the fact that god exists and gave us these commandments"?  If I
have the right not to believe in god (especially given the lack of evidence
pointing towards such a conclusion), then I have no basis for believing in
the nature of the commandments as you see them.  I think you've put your
assumptions (the existence of god and the "holiness" of the commandments)
before the horse.

> Several people on this net seem, to me at least, to think that truth
> is determined by majority opinion.  That isn't the case.  The world
> was no flatter in the 15th century, despite the opinions of the noted
> men of the day.  Popular opinion doesn't change the truth declared
> from the beginning.  If you don't believe in G!d, that doesn't change
> the fact that G!d believes in you and wants YOU to keep his commandments.

As I said above.  If you DO believe in god, then good for you.  Whatever
your basis for choosing to do so, it is neither obvious nor imperative nor
evident that it exist.  Your assumptions don't apply to the real world of
other human beings, who have no basis for accepting what you accept.
Assume anything you want.

> Today, many people think homosexuality is right.  Some people in
> Davis are trying to pass a homosexual rights ordinance.  Some of
> the supporters call themselves Jewish.  None of this makes homosexual
> activity correct in the eyes of our maker.  Arguing that lots of
> people break the Sabbath and that the penalties for Sabbath violations
> are severe is no excuse for homosexual activities either.  Just
> because a large number of people, or even a majority of people,
> break a commandment doesn't invalidate the commandment.

Given the lack of substantiation for the "divine" nature of the 
"commandment", on what basis can you impose your likes and dislikes
on other people?  If you can't come up with any, but still choose
to do so, then that is no different from bigots and anti-Semites
declaring that THEIR book says that YOUR beliefs are a "sin against
our maker" and worthy of punishment.  As always, it's that simple.
-- 
"There!  I've run rings 'round you logically!"
"Oh, intercourse the penguin!"			Rich Rosen    ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr