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From: cramer@kontron.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: Let's lock all the discrimination up at night
Message-ID: <200@kontron.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 4-Jun-85 21:23:11 EDT
Article-I.D.: kontron.200
Posted: Tue Jun  4 21:23:11 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 6-Jun-85 06:15:52 EDT
References: <2408@decwrl.UUCP>
Organization: Kontron Electronics, Irvine, CA
Lines: 41

> kontron!cramer  ==  >
> 
> Subject: Re: Discrimination
> Posted: Fri May 17 12:55:52 1985
> > --- my ancestors, and those of a lot of other people
> > in this country, gave lives in the Civil War to end slavery.
> 
> Gee, your ancestors were done a big injustice by being told a big lie.  Too
> bad this lie got passed along to you.  Saying the Civil War was fought to free
> the slaves is something like saying the Great War was fought because the
> archduke got shot.
> 
I hope this isn't a disappointment, but a lot of people fought in the Civil
War because they considered slavery an evil worth eradicating.  That doesn't
mean there were no other reasons for the war; it doesn't mean everyone who
fought in the Civil War did so to abolish slavery --- but a lot of white
males gave their lives to end slavery.

> 
> Subject: Re: Re: \"Why not send the men home?\"
> Posted: Fri May 17 12:51:18 1985
> 
> > *Some* men don't treat *some* women very well at all.  One of the reasons
> > that the label *feminist* leaves a bad taste in my mouth is a tendency
> > by some self-proclaimed feminists to lump all men and all women into
> > classes, and view rape, spouse abuse, and violence as "class struggle"
> > issues.  Each of us is an individual, and deserves to be treated as an
> > individual, *not* as a member of a class, sex, or group.
> 
> Pretty funny!  Lumping innocents because you think somebody else lumps 
> innocents!  Go look in the mirror, oh self-proclaimed-lumper-of-feminists!
> 
> L S Chabot   ...decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot   chabot%amber.dec@decwrl.arpa

Actually *read* what I wrote, and you'll see (above), that I said "some
self-proclaimed feminists" --- I didn't lump all feminists together because
of the actions of some.  The *label* "feminist" disturbs me (as do a lot
of labels), because they imply an acceptance of group thinking; if someone
calls themselves a "feminist", why first reaction is bristle, but I don't
let it prevent me from listening to what they have to say, and evaluating
that person as a person.