Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site burl.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!geoff
From: geoff@burl.UUCP (geoff)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: "provocative" clothing
Message-ID: <731@burl.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 6-Jun-85 17:09:17 EDT
Article-I.D.: burl.731
Posted: Thu Jun  6 17:09:17 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 7-Jun-85 02:35:48 EDT
References: <734@oddjob.UUCP> <193@timeinc.UUCP> <766@mtgzz.UUCP> <180@kontron.UUCP> <413@calmasd.UUCP>
Reply-To: geoff@burl.UUCP (geoff)
Organization: AT&T Technologies, Burlington NC
Lines: 58
Summary: 

In article <413@calmasd.UUCP> gail@calmasd.UUCP (Gail B. Hanrahan) writes:
>In article <180@kontron.UUCP> cramer@kontron.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>>The only assertion
>>is that provocative dress may push *a few* rapists over the edge;
>>it would be safest to avoid trouble, just like I avoid trouble by not
>>walking through Watts at night.
>
>The only problem with this is that women have no way of knowing
>what will be considered provocative.  Jeans and t-shirts have
>been considered provocative.  Do you mean that I should not wear
>my normal, everyday clothing on the street?  Should we, just to
>avoid trouble, wear voluminous robes and veils a la Middle
>Eastern cultures?  But someone, somewhere, may be provoked by a
>voluminous robe.  Maybe we should, just to avoid trouble, stay
>at home all the time?  
>
>Sharon Badian was perfectly correct when she said (I paraphrase
>here) that discussion of provocative clothing only confuses the
>issue.  

I don't think anyone who has posted on this issue (well, I can say for
sure only myself) has been talking about things that 'might' be provocative.
Sure, any given individual could find ANYTHING provocative (I am really
into dirty burlap bags, myself :-)).  The articles have been speaking
about clothes that almost anyone would consider provocative.  A really
slinky dress slit up to the arm.  That kind. (I really don't want to
go through a bunch of examples;  do you get my drift?).  I am not trying
to be picky, I just want to make sure we are describing the same things.

The article posted (I think by Ross, but I am not sure) about interviews
with rapists was interesting and seems to support the conclusion that
many (repeat: *m*a*n*y*) rapists *are* influenced by the appearance of
their victims.  They want them 'sexy'.  Now while everyone has their
own ideas of 'sexy', I would hazard a guess that most people would find
the type clothes described above 'extremely sexy'.  Wearing them in
questionable circumstances is like waving a red flag in front of a bull.
Sure, most bulls probably wouldn't charge;  but why take the chance?.

I understand what the posters on the other side have been saying -- they
want to be able to wear anything, and go anywhere without fear of harassment.
I can understand wanting this.  I also can understand wanting a million
dollars.  Um, welcome to the real world.  As of yet, I have seen *zero*
rational proposals for doing *anything* about rape except those promoting
self-defense and choosing care where you walk alone (and, to a lessor
extent, what you wear).  Rapists have been around for a *long* time.
I really don't think they are going to go away -- no matter how much
vitriol is expended on the net.

The rapist is wrong.  Great.  We ALL agree with that.  YOU are still
responsible for what you do, because you have to live with the results.
If you do things that you know are risky, be prepared to take the
consequences.  You shouldn't have to?  Well, life is mean, nasty, totally
unfair, and absolutely indifferent to the desires of an individual
(I saw a nature film where a pride of lions devoured a zebra they caught;
the zebra was not happy).

	just stirrin' the pot
		geoff sherwood