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From: jeff@rtech.UUCP (Jeff Lichtman)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: re: last night
Message-ID: <469@rtech.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 5-Jun-85 16:13:53 EDT
Article-I.D.: rtech.469
Posted: Wed Jun  5 16:13:53 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 9-Jun-85 02:48:11 EDT
References: <533@usl.UUCP>
Organization: Relational Technology, Alameda CA
Lines: 57

> I can certainly sympathize with being in a helpless position, but then
> I don't really feel that Ellen's position was helpless.  First, she could
> have responded as Jeff Lichtman pointed out in his article.  Secondly, I
> feel that such a situation need not neccessarily be interpreted as an 
> affront.

Here's where I part company with you.

> Having several gay friends, I sometimes find myself in an overwhelimingly
> gay environment where I have been frequently propositioned (gay society
> seeming to me to be much more forward, sexually, than straight) and 
> occaisionally accosted.  Not being gay or bi myself, these propositions
> have little interest to me but I prefer to look upon them as compliments
> rather than insults.  Now I know this is not the same as Ellen's incident,
> so here is another.

It certainly is *not* the same.  Imagine walking in a strange neighborhood
and having a man twice your size expose himself to you and say "Hey, mister.
Look at my cock.  HEY!  Look at my cock!"  Would this scare you?  Would you
feel that you might have to defend yourself in just a few seconds.

> On my way between home and school is a fairly wild (for this town) bar where
> the patrons frequently congregate in small groups on the front steps.  One
> night whilst on my way to school, a woman on the steps yelled out to me,
> "Hey, cute boy!" and when I looked over at her she raised her shirt and
> bared her breasts to me.  I was rather surprised, but this brought a smile
> to my face and I laughed about it for several days thereafter.  I found the
> whole thing rather amusing and told all my friends about it.

I don't know about you, but this would scare the hell out of me.  I would be
scared that the woman might rape me in a few seconds. :-)  In what way did
this woman threaten you?  If I were in this situation, I would merely tip
my hat, if I wore a hat.

> So, it would seem that I would be one of those men who would be likely to
> excuse the exibitionist, not because I invalidated the woman's feelings, but
> because the event wouldn't seem as serious to me.  I can see only one
> significant difference between the event I just recounted and Ellen's,
> which is that being male, the thought of rape would never enter my mind
> as a possible consequence of such an event, whereas a woman would be much
> quicker to feel herself as attacked, be it only verbal.

Women must worry about rape in a situation like this.  That is a *big*
difference, not a minor one.

> Forgive me if my position seems unsympathetic, but I'm willing to consider
> any oversights or gross genearlizations anyone can find in my remarks.
> -- 
> 				    Joe Arceneaux

Joe, I will try to forgive your insensitivity if you try to correct it.
-- 
Jeff Lichtman at rtech (Relational Technology, Inc.)
aka Swazoo Koolak

{amdahl, sun}!rtech!jeff
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