Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site usl.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!akgub!usl!jla From: jla@usl.UUCP (Joe Arceneaux) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: re: last night Message-ID: <566@usl.UUCP> Date: Sun, 9-Jun-85 23:45:39 EDT Article-I.D.: usl.566 Posted: Sun Jun 9 23:45:39 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 11-Jun-85 05:17:07 EDT Reply-To: jla@usl.UUCP (Joe Arceneaux) Organization: University of (SW) Louisiana Lines: 91 Jeff Lichtman writes: > > It certainly is *not* the same. Imagine walking in a strange neighborhood > and having a man twice your size expose himself to you and say "Hey, mister. > Look at my cock. HEY! Look at my cock!" Would this scare you? Would you > feel that you might have to defend yourself in just a few seconds. Neither is your example the same; Ellen was a bit removed from the exibitionist, and in her car. Had your example indeed happened to me, yes I would feel that I might have to defend myself shortly, but then I would have realized that when I went into the area. Occaisionally I do find myself in situations where the chance for weird and possibly violent phenomena is considerable, but I accept that and would rather be prepared to deal with the risks than significantly alter my behavior just to avoid them. >> ... >> night whilst on my way to school, a woman on the steps yelled out to me, >> "Hey, cute boy!" and when I looked over at her she raised her shirt and >> bared her breasts to me. I was rather surprised, but this brought a smile >> to my face and I laughed about it for several days thereafter. I found the >> whole thing rather amusing and told all my friends about it. > > I don't know about you, but this would scare the hell out of me. I would be > scared that the woman might rape me in a few seconds. :-) In what way did > this woman threaten you? If I were in this situation, I would merely tip > my hat, if I wore a hat. Indeed, and in what way was Ellen threatened? None that I can see. Actually, for a moment it seemed you were making fun of Ellen's incident, but then later, with regard to my statement that the effect of such an event would weigh much more heavily on a woman's mind than a man' because the idea of rape would be less likely to occur to him, you say: > Women must worry about rape in a situation like this. That is a *big* > difference, not a minor one. And Judy McMullan writes: > ... > That IS the significant difference! You didn't expect the woman exhibitionist > to physically attack you. That is exactly what a woman in that position could > expect. I am constantly amazed at the number of men who fail to understand > this. Women are not afraid of men for no reason. Almost all women have been > ... Now, I *really understand* that women worry about the possibility of rape in such situations. But was there such a possibility in Ellen's case? It doesn't seem so from what I remember (she was in her car, removed from the potential assailent). My point is the difference in attitude toward the same situation between a male and a female. The male attitude, as demonstrated by both Jeff and myself, is one of amusement. The female attitude as illustrated by Ellen's incident, is one of fear and anger. I realize that the fear of rape in almost any encounter with a male, engendered by incidents such as those recounted recently in this newsgroup, can make such a difference. But isn't the ideal such that there would BE NO DIFFERENCE in the male and female attitude to such an incident? It seems to me that Ellen's attitude exacerbates the difference by assuming the negative, pessimistic posture regarding the situation when it was really an insignificant thing. Here's what I mean: Assuming that the ideal is in fact that a male and a female (of equivalent moral positions) would respond with the same attitude, would it be better for them to both be fearful and angry, or to both find the encounter amusing? Personally, I opt for the latter. I have one other thing to say regarding MY attitude to this incident, which is that I have several friends who live in the French Quarter of New Orleans where such incidents as Ellens happen not infrequently (both male and female) and so I admit that my attitude may be biased towards the lighter side. But really, I'd rather laugh about something than be upset about it. > Joe, I will try to forgive your insensitivity if you try to correct it. > -- > Jeff Lichtman at rtech (Relational Technology, Inc.) > aka Swazoo Koolak I imagine I may now seem more unsympathetic than ever, but that's not so. I sympathize with Ellen's anger and if she were a friend I'd do my best to comfort her, but I cannot *empathize* with her position as I do not really understand it. -- Joe Arceneaux Lafayette, LA {akgua, ut-sally}!usl!jla