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From: jbuck@epicen.UUCP (Joe Buck)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: Madonna, role model
Message-ID: <147@epicen.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 12-Jun-85 22:34:19 EDT
Article-I.D.: epicen.147
Posted: Wed Jun 12 22:34:19 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 17-Jun-85 04:31:39 EDT
References: <273@cmu-cs-g.ARPA> <841@ccice5.UUCP> <2222@topaz.ARPA> <1625@reed.UUCP> <312@spar.UUCP>
Organization: Entropic Processing, Inc., Cupertino, CA
Lines: 49
Summary: you're both wrong!

> From: ellis@spar.UUCP (Michael Ellis)
> Date: 10 Jun 85 17:14:57 GMT
> 
> > What is wrong with blatant sexuality? It can
> > be fun, in teh right setting. The Board Room is not a good setting for
> > it. But if all a young girl sees is The Board Room, then how is she
> > going to be able to deal with whatever emotions and sexuality she has
> > or comes in contactr with as an adolescent?  Teaching them only one way
> > of being, be it sexy or professional, is not going to produce a person
> > capable of dealing with the ENTIRE real world.
> >
> > /amqueue
> 
>     If our mass-media did not suffer from a glut of dumb, sex-kittens..
>     If our male-dominated society did not perceive women as sexual toys..
>     If male peer group attitudes were not so appalling ugly..
>     If TV's cheap money-making stereotypical mindfuck were somehow balanced by
>     an intelligent humanistic viewpoint..
>     If our society were not so unfairly controlled by
>     Men of Greed and Stupidity who have everything to gain by
>     maintaining traditional attitudes...
>     ..then Madonna's `sexyness' might not be so offensive.
> -michael

The problem with Madonna is not her sexuality per se. It is her particular
way of expressing it. It's not on her terms, but on someone else's (adolescent
males, mostly).

Michael, if it weren't for those problems you mention, Madonna wouldn't exist.
There would be no market for her. And her sexiness is not what is offensive.

There's no contradiction between sexuality and feminism. Listen to Chrissie
Hynde, for example. Her lyrics are more explicitly sexual than Madonna's.
But it's on her terms; she doesn't make herself into someone else's toy.

She's talking about her own sexual feelings, rather than just trying to
inspire them in someone else for monetary gain (though Chrissie Hynde
is certainly capable of inspiring such feelings with her voice alone,
without the bumping and grinding). That's what the objection
to Madonna should be.

Watch the talk about role models. We should all remember the arguments
we had with our parents. But if we have to put it that way, adolescents
should learn that sexuality shouldn't require us (men or women) to become
objects or use each other as objects. And we shouldn't rebel against
sexuality; only against sexism.
-- 
Joe Buck		Entropic Processing, Inc. (epi)
	  		{ucbvax,ihnp4}!dual!epicen!jbuck