Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site timeinc.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!timeinc!greenber From: greenber@timeinc.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: Jeff Sonntag: You lucky S.O.B...... Message-ID: <257@timeinc.UUCP> Date: Wed, 19-Jun-85 13:48:14 EDT Article-I.D.: timeinc.257 Posted: Wed Jun 19 13:48:14 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 23-Jun-85 14:48:50 EDT References: <251@timeinc.UUCP> <448@tymix.UUCP> Reply-To: greenber@timeinc.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) Distribution: net Organization: Time, Inc. - New York Lines: 88 I guess the followup article misses the point: Jeff was saying that (forgive me for the paraphrase) that men have no problems as compared to women who have to constantly worry about rape. This was in response to an article that started to mention other issues besides the ones normally in this news group: changing roles of *men and women*. Certainly the items that I brought up do not qualify as legitimate major concerns --- when each is considered by itself. However when they are all taken as a package, it means that I (for example) still haven't figured out how to deal with the *new* women, and still be me. There is a portion of me that says that I should treat women as total equals in the home, at the job site, and in bed. Then there is another portion of me that keeps on wondering how I can do that when women (or at least the ones on the net) keep on talking about womens' superior this and that (i.e. who says women are more closely in tune with their emotions?). Or the other portion that says that women do not have a need to be protected (as they can protect themselves), and then the women on the net tell me that *I* must educate my fellow *men* to the idea that (as example) rape is wrong. There is a whole bunch of contradictions that men must now deal with for the first time. This is a topic that really doesn't get expressed too much in this group as we battle over the semantics of the word "provocative". Look, we all know what the word means. So we use the fourteenth definition in Archibalds New World Dictionary to make *our* point. There really isn't a need, I feel, to battle over such garbage. Since I am male, I can legitimately only tell you of the feelings that I attribute to my maleness. We have a choice:allow the attribution as sex dependant, which indicates that there are differences between the sexes, or reject the idea that feelings and/or thoughts are sex dependant, in which case we're all the same (I'm not :-)). It is wonderfull to discuss the idea of education in the future solving all the problems that we consider sex based. But I have to live today. So when I see a pretty women crossing the street, and I wouldn't mind getting to know her better (she "appeals to me"), I would love to say: "I'd like to buy you a cup of coffee", and expect her to think "What the hell", instead of me saying to myself "She might take that as a sexual come on. I wonder what I should say to her instead". And it would be nice if she could say the same to me instead of having to consider that asking me out for coffee is equivilent to saying "I want to have sex with you". There really are legitimate male concerns that really should be talked over with open women --- women who aren't afraid that every man will rape them, and that understand that persons like the Scott Turners of the world are not representitive of anything male (I wonder whether his mother is proud of him?). There are things that we can learn about each other through each other. There are things that I, as male, can never understand that every women knows (what do period cramps feel like? How does it feel to have a live body kicking inside of you? What does an orgasm feel like?) And there are equivilant things that you women will never understand. Why don't we agree on that, and try to reach some common understanding? And the first step is in realizing that we each have our own problems, that we don't know how to deal with. And that *maybe* these concerns and problems are because my generic sex doesn't understand how to get the point across to your generic sex. Or vice versa. But maybe *you* do. Whew! Long winded, and I apologize. But I'm really tired of not seeing any co-operation in this group as we have to insult each other due to our genitilia. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Ross M. Greenberg @ Time Inc, New York --------->{ihnp4 | vax135}!timeinc!greenber<--------- I highly doubt that Time Inc. they would make me their spokesperson. ------ "There's something wrong in the world. There's always been. Something no one has ever named or explained" --- Francisco d'Anconia