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From: carnes@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP (Richard Carnes)
Newsgroups: net.women,net.politics
Subject: Re: Discrimination and AA
Message-ID: <501@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 22-Jun-85 22:07:59 EDT
Article-I.D.: gargoyle.501
Posted: Sat Jun 22 22:07:59 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 24-Jun-85 02:50:20 EDT
References: <496@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP> <>
Organization: U. Chicago - Computer Science
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Xref: watmath net.women:6023 net.politics:9536
Summary: The thing nobody's had the guts to say about jj@alice

(just kidding)

In article <> jj@alice.UUCP writes:
>
>Damnit, Carnes, you can argue with me, but when you start implying that I'm 
>a liar you've gone too far.  Your offensive, totally
>off-the-wall presumption about "comfortable white males" screaming their
>heads off is RACIST, Carnes.  [etc.]

I'm sorry if my point was not sufficiently clear.  I did not mean to
imply that all opponents of AA are comfortable white bigots pining
for the good old days when blacks and women knew their place.  And
jj@alice seems to have a social conscience in good working order.

I was trying to express my bafflement at those who seem to say that
white males are now an oppressed group because of AA, in the same
sense that blacks and women historically have been oppressed.  How
can anyone suggest that the hardships, such as they are, that AA
inflicts on white males are comparable to those endured by blacks and
women for centuries and even today?  I genuinely don't understand.  I
would be the last person to say that no white males in the US are
oppressed and/or exploited; hell, I'm probably one of them.  But I
attribute this to capitalism, not to affirmative action.

>The business of forcing quotas and the like only enforces racist 
>policies, increases hatred, and causes more trouble.  

Tell that to the great majority of state and local governments and
businesses who are ignoring the Reagan Admin.'s call to undo AA
plans.  Here in Chicago the proportion of blacks, Hispanics, and
women on the police and firefighting forces has increased
significantly because of AA, and most people think that's terrific.
AA has in general been a big success, and an example of how positive
government can improve the quality of life and promote the general
welfare.

Richard Carnes