Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site pyuxd.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!gamma!pyuxww!pyuxd!rlr From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) Newsgroups: net.philosophy Subject: Re: Re: freedom and unpredictability Message-ID: <1151@pyuxd.UUCP> Date: Tue, 2-Jul-85 18:52:09 EDT Article-I.D.: pyuxd.1151 Posted: Tue Jul 2 18:52:09 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 3-Jul-85 20:32:10 EDT References: <325@spar.UUCP> <27500082@ISM780B.UUCP> <1123@pyuxd.UUCP> <541@umcp-cs.UUCP> Organization: Whatever we're calling ourselves this week Lines: 37 Keywords: external >In article <1123@pyuxd.UUCP> rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) writes: >>You mean like quoting the dictionary definition of free will? I've done >>that repeatedly. > > I must have missed this. [PAUL TOREK] Obviously. I'd used a number of dictionary definitions, including American Heritage. >>I reiterate in case >>you missed it the first time: "the belief that man's choices ultimately >>are or can be voluntary AND NOT DETERMINED BY EXTERNAL CAUSES" is the >>operative definition (or one of them offering a similar perspective). > Which dictionary was that? Why do you ask? You "sound" almost as if you don't believe your "ears", or that you doubt my word. As I said above, American Heritage, which tends to be a more objective dictionary than Webster's, for example. (Compare the two dictionaries' definitions for "scientism".) > Anyway, a tricky word here is "external". I > suggest you look that one up, keeping in mind that the question "external > to what" would seem to have the answer "man" or "volition ( based on the definition quoted. Not at all, Paul. My first guess is "outside of the boundaries of". In looking it up, I find that summarizes most of the definitions, but I include another here for your own comments: "4. Existing independently of the mind; objective; phenomenal." In any case, external causes would refer to the actions of the physical world as having an effect on the mind or brain, which is what I've been contending all along---the outside world, the physical world itself, is what has effects on the rational evaluative analysis process, thus not making it free. -- Like a turban (HEY!), worn for the very first time... Rich Rosen ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr