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From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen)
Newsgroups: net.abortion
Subject: Re: \"Words mean what I pay them to mean . . .\"
Message-ID: <1258@pyuxd.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 20-Jul-85 12:21:52 EDT
Article-I.D.: pyuxd.1258
Posted: Sat Jul 20 12:21:52 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 22-Jul-85 06:25:22 EDT
References: <3213@decwrl.UUCP>
Organization: Whatever we're calling ourselves this week
Lines: 85

> Rich Rosen (my buddy) claims the human fetus is a "Parasite" in the woman's
> body!!!  Since the Fetus grows from a cell (the egg remember??) of the woman's
> own body (ah gee, + the cute little sperm) HOW THE HECK CAN IT BE A PARASITE??
> Is my liver a 'parasite'?????   Ans.  It is if it 'fits' my preconceived
> (har har) view of abortion - which itself stems from a political/religious
> world view.

Ken Arndt (his own buddy) didn't read the original article, apparently.
The liver fills a function in my body.  If it becomes cancerous, I would
have it removed.  Or would you try to stop me?  (Didn't someone once say
that there was an SF story about a world like that!)  How dare I take that
'living thing' out of my body!!  For some people, having a fetus inside their
womb is a good thing---they want to nurture it into a child.  Who are you to
say that someone who doesn't want it there must be forced to keep it there?
My god, Kenneth, she has eggs in her ovaries, too!  By your logic, if she
has her tubes tied, or even if she's celibate, oh dear, she's KILLED those
'babies' inside her!!! I use the term "your logic" in the loosest possible
sense, of course.

> Weren't Jews called Parasites Rich??  For just about the same reasons.  Prove
> Jews are human they would say.  The Jews kept saying, "Don't we bleed when
> you cut us?".  "No, you're different", was the answer.  The Nazis killed
> SUBHUMANS!

I always like it when you show how closely tied your beliefs are to those of
Nazis, Kenneth.  People who support the right of abortion do more than just
say "No, they're different", they provide factual evidence.  People who would
deny that right (like you/) are the ones who sit on their duffs and say
"No, they're different!", or who engage in manipulative propaganda because
they can't GIVE those necessary facts.

> Look, you guys (and gals), medical science is showing us more and more every
> day(Fetal development) that human life is a continuum from conception to
> death! That's facts!!  And some on this net say it's not human until it's
> born!  And Rich raises the absolutely stupid idea that it's not human because
> it can't survive outside the mother's body!  What trash!  What evil.

Evil being in the eye of the evildoer, I'll let that pass.  I thought you
didn't like science...  Oh, only when it promotes YOUR position.  By continuing
your reasoning (again, the term used very loosely), masturbating would have
to be a crime just like abortion, and given the function your postings seem
to serve, you'd be spending a lot of time in jail...

> it's only a matter of technology that it can't survive - we can now 'save'
> children at a very much earlier stage of fetal development outside the
> mother and the science is moving to an earlier and earlier age!  Yes? 

Good.  Then if fetuses can be removed from the wombs of women who don't
want them, then YOU (and those like you) can wean them into humanhood
using this technology.  Oh, I see, YOU don't want them, you want the woman
to be "responsible" because of your blame-oriented religious dogma...
I'd love to see the day when this technology really does exist (to
my knowledge it doesn't on a large scale), so that anti-abortionists could
really put their money where their mouths are.

> Besides, the question of whether or not it can survive without help HAS
> NOTHING LOGICAL TO DO WITH THE QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT IT IS HUMNAN!!!!  A
> fish out of water is not a fish??Can Rich survive without his modem?  Was he
> not 'Rich' before he got his modem for his birthday?  

The water, the air, and my modem, elements of the environment that are
needed for survival (according to Ken) have one thing in common:  they are
NOT a living person's body!!!!!  And since we respect the rights of human
beings to their bodies, the right to abortion logically follows.  (Oh, I
forgot, some of us don't respect human rights.)

> Abortion is murder or murder has no meaning.

I have a dictionary.  Murder still has meaning.

> Rich is fond of showing us again and again how reasonable and logical he is
> - heis an antique in that he is a victim of the failed philosophical
> viewpoint called Positivism - but his preachments don't stand up to reason.

In net.philosophy, I asked those like you to stand up and tell us about this
grand debunking.  It seems all you non-positivists can do is tell us how
positivism has been debunked, whatever it may be.  Can you show how it
doesn't stand up to reason, or can you only assert that it doesn't?  Or must
you quote a text by an author you don't understand who concludes "Thus it is
debunked"??  Grow up, Kenneth.  We've been through this before.  We know you
to be incapable of such a real argument as I describe.  Go fetch a book.
Quote from it.  Let us know how learned you are.  Say nothing.  As usual.
-- 
"There!  I've run rings 'round you logically!"
"Oh, intercourse the penguin!"			Rich Rosen    ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr