Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2(pesnta.1.2) 9/5/84; site scc.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!prls!amdimage!amdcad!amd!pesnta!scc!steiny From: steiny@scc.UUCP (Don Steiny) Newsgroups: net.politics,net.followup Subject: Re: Re: Islam (long but informative) Message-ID: <522@scc.UUCP> Date: Thu, 25-Jul-85 19:56:36 EDT Article-I.D.: scc.522 Posted: Thu Jul 25 19:56:36 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 28-Jul-85 06:55:46 EDT References: <10@unc.UUCP> Distribution: net Organization: Don Steiny Software Lines: 92 Xref: linus net.politics:9471 net.followup:4239 > > In article heddaya@harvard.ARPA ( Solom) writes: > >Imagine my surprise at reading that after all what I have been taught of my > >religion (Islam) at home, at school, and at the mosque. I was taught that > >Islam is the religion of tolerance, that violence can only be condoned in > >self-defense, and even then, God (=Allah in arabic) loves and rewards those > >who forgive. > > Abdelsalam Heddaya > > Still, I find it difficult to believe Mr. Heddaya`s claims of tolerance > as the standard for the Moslem world. > The following is from a speech > given December 12, 1984, the birthday of Mohammed, and is taken from > the April, 1985 edition of Harper`s. . . . speech by Kohomeni, he talks of dying and killing to make the world right . . . > > Bill Oliver > Citing Kohomeni to make arguments about Islam in general is analogous to quoting Falwell to make arguments about Christianity in general. Many religions have had to alter their fundemental beliefs to exist in the world as has been since the early times when the religions started. The Shi'i and the Suni'i are quite different. The idea of an Inman, a leader who is divinely inspired and incapable of error is a Shi'ite belief. I am sure that even among the Shi'ites it is not completely agreed that Kohomeni is an Inman. The rift within Islam is so great that it brought down the centuries old Islamic empire in the 1500's. Western culture owes a vast debt to the Islamic empire. All of the ancient Greek works, including the New Testment, were saved by Moslems. The Christians burned the library at Alexandria. The Islamic cultures preserved the philosophy and geometry of the ancient Greeks and reintroduced it to Europe. "Algebra" comes from an Arabic word, and our system of numbers comes from Arabic. The beliefs of the Islamic people may seem strange or even violent to us. However, we all exist in this world together. Islamic people have a heritage of a great culture that is older than the cultures in Europe and the United States. Often people in the United States cite examples to show how barbaric, backward, evil, or whatever that Moslems are. How do you think this makes a Moslem feel? No wonder so many Moslems in the Mideast hate the United States. When our ansestors were burning each other at the stake, the Moslems were enriching the world with important advances in litrature, medicine, art, mathematics, and science. Yet people in the United States have the audacity to call THEM barbarians. European powers eventually took over all of the Arabian states. They colonized them, as it were. Basically, that means that European powers simply took whatever resources they wanted from their colonies. In Arabia it was oil, and for many years Western powers simply took the oil and charged themselves any price they wanted. Sure they had to pay part to the countries, but they pumped out the oil and sold it to themselves, so they could charge any price they wanted. It was a messy business when the Arab states demanded determination over their own resources. In short, the Islamic people have been ripped off, insulted, and generally abused in the worst way by the West and they have every reason to be angry. It is reasonable to make an attempt to understand other people in the world. I found "The Majesty that was Islam" a good introduction to the "golden age" of Islam. It is not reasonable to expect a people with as long a history as the Islamic people to suddenly shift their world view so that it agrees with the average American world view. If you do not like the customs in Arabia, don't go there. If you want to abide by the customs of the country you visit and to learn to respect the people and the customs, then any place is open to you. It's true, Dorthy, it's not Kansas, but you might discover that it is OZ. -- scc!steiny Don Steiny @ Don Steiny Software 109 Torrey Pine Terrace Santa Cruz, Calif. 95060