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From: phoenix@ucbtopaz.CC.Berkeley.ARPA (John H. Johnson)
Newsgroups: net.news.group
Subject: The return of net.bizarre.
Message-ID: <1026@ucbtopaz.CC.Berkeley.ARPA>
Date: Mon, 22-Jul-85 22:04:03 EDT
Article-I.D.: ucbtopaz.1026
Posted: Mon Jul 22 22:04:03 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 25-Jul-85 02:24:51 EDT
Reply-To: phoenix@ucbtopaz.UUCP ()
Organization: Univ. of Calif., Berkeley CA USA
Lines: 59
Keywords: Forgive the length - Please read
Summary: An *immense* amount of support, and with reason.


	Good afternoon, gentlefolk.  I am here to speak to you today about 
a very popular un-group:  net.bizarre.

	As you all know, this group was created on accident by our friends
at Perkin-Elmer.  As such, it was rightfully removed from the net because
it did not meet the criteria for becoming a new group.  However, in its
short lifetime this group tapped a well-spring of enthusiasm unequalled
in recent times.  Within its first hours of existence there were ^several^
original, unrelated postings - unheard of for a new group.  And the support
among the net populace has been staggering.

	Sensing that there was a great deal of support on the net for this
group, I posted articles to net.bizarre and net.jokes asking those who had an
opinion on the groups existence to mail me thier thoughts.  Despite the fact
that few sites still carry net.bizarre, and net.jokes was the *only* other 
group to which I posted the request, and that it was a weekend, in the short
turnaround time of four days I have received over _65_ *very* positive replies.
The above restrictions, including time, suggest that this is just the tip of
the iceburg.  In that same time period I have received a few other letters
requesting more information, but only one dissenting vote, and that one was 
rather humorous.

	The criteria for creating a new group(or reestablishing one) call
for a wide base of support.  My overstuffed mail box establishes that we have
met the first criterion (If there are any doubters, I would be happy to forward
a list of pathnames, or the complete file of comments if so desired {:-) ).
A second requirement is discussion.  Well, there has already been discussion
here in net.news.group from root@bu-cs, myself, and others; and I am *sure* 
there will be plenty of discussion after this posting.  The remaining criterion
calls in a somewhat vague way for a show of the ^need^ for the new group. 
Given unclear parameters, this is the hardest, or easiest to establish, 
depending upon your viewpoint.  I have several responses to this last 
criterion, but since this article is getting long, I will discuss these in
an article to follow.  Suffice it to say here that many people perceive a 
need, or gap, that this group fills.  *Please* read the article on reasons.

	Flames are welcome, but none are justified.  This is being handled in
the best of net.etiquette.  I acknowledge and share the concern over creating
another top group, but this group by its nature cannot be a sub-group of
anything, and it certainly has more interest in it then several current top
groups.  There should be room for one more (especially if spaf@gatech removes 
a few groups that are just lying about).  If at some point in the future
net.bizarre degenerates to no traffic, I would be happy to remove it myself, 
but right now it has copious amounts of support.  If it will ease a few minds
to create it as an experimental group(as one person suggested), so be it.  I 
do not believe it will bother the posters or readers to know they are part of
a vast, enlightening experiment [{:-)].  I *do* know it would bother very many
people ^greatly^ if they did not get the chance.

	I have said *more* than enough (Whew, isn't he #long# winded!) in
my attempt to sum up and avert unecessary yes/no posting, so I will be on
my way.   Thank you for your time, and an open ear.....


		0 0		  (Crises?.... What Crises?)
                 ^            
                \_/               John
                                  Phoenix@ucbtopaz       ucbvax!ucbtopaz!phoenix