Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site lzwi.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!ihnp4!lzwi!nrh From: nrh@lzwi.UUCP (N.R.HASLOCK) Newsgroups: net.nlang.celts Subject: Re: King Arthur Message-ID: <217@lzwi.UUCP> Date: Mon, 29-Jul-85 23:02:13 EDT Article-I.D.: lzwi.217 Posted: Mon Jul 29 23:02:13 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 31-Jul-85 04:10:12 EDT References: <1688@reed.UUCP> <238@persci.UUCP> <1337@cbosgd.UUCP> Distribution: net Organization: AT&T Information Systems, Lincroft Lines: 70 Summary: Revised history of roman britain Mea Culpa, or as accurately translated 'Me a culprit'. A few days ago I made a set of pronouncements which a look in my Encyclopedia Britannica shows to be utter swill. 44 bc Ceasar came, saw, and left in disgust. 45 ad Three legions arrive and remain despite disust. 122 ad Hadrian has a wall built and named after him. It runs from Carlisle to Newcastle on Tyne ( approximately ) 145 ad Antonius has a go a conquering scotland currently the home of the Picts. He has a wall built from the Solway Firth to the Firth of Forth. This is a cheap wall, only 20 miles as opposed to Hadrians 70 miles. He also has a legion wandering off north of the wall. 180 ad The picts in all areas north of hadrians wall rise in revolt. The legions retreat. 225 ad The work of revamping and repairing Hadrians wall is started. No further messing about north of this wall. 340 ad Troops start to be recalled to Rome. Raids by Saxons and Scotti are noticable and lead to a series of coastal forts and watchtowers being built along the east coast. 360 ad Saxons are hired to defend against saxon raiders. 400 ad Last traces of rule from Rome are gone. Raids increase. Celts pushed west to West Wales ( Now called Cornwall ) and North Wales ( Now called Wales ). 439 ad Saxon Kingdom of Kent founded. 449 ad Celts from West Wales raid and occupy Brittany 517 ad Mons Badonicus - Arthur's Last Battle. Peace for 44 years. ( the book notes that the battle was 517 minus 15 to 20 years ) Other Blunders. Mercia is the Danish kingdom centered on Newcastle-on-Tyne Wessex is the Saxon kingdom centered on Bristol, Bath or possibly Oxford. The kingdom of Kent became Sussex as it spread along the south coast. The Danes moved in earlier than I thought but not early enough to figure in the Arthur legend. Possible Truths. The celtic name for fort, camp or castle is Caer or Car. Chester, cester and caster are all saxon derivatives. I do not believe that the danes went in for fortified towns and so did not leave specific place name derivatives. Note that 90+% of the roman names have been replaced, e.g. Chester was Deva Bath was Auae Sulis York was Eboracum Colchester was Camoludunum London was Londinium ( was Londres or Logres?? ) If this discussion continues, I will look up Geoffrey of Monmouths version of history and post that. Regardless of anything else it is the earliest relevant document and{so obscure chukOnks of it have been validated. Happy Dreams Everyone -- -- {ihnp4|vax135|allegra}!lznv!nrh Nigel The Mad Englishman or The Madly Maundering Mumbler in the Wildernesses Everything you have read here is a figment of your imagination. Noone else in the universe currently subscribes to these opinions. "Its the rope, you know. You can't get it, you know."