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From: padraig@utastro.UUCP (Padraig Houlahan)
Newsgroups: net.philosophy
Subject: Re: The Harumpheror's Old Clothes
Message-ID: <456@utastro.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 31-Jul-85 13:31:13 EDT
Article-I.D.: utastro.456
Posted: Wed Jul 31 13:31:13 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 2-Aug-85 07:36:24 EDT
References: <1334@pyuxd.UUCP> <1034@umcp-cs.UUCP>
Organization: U. Texas, Astronomy, Austin, TX
Lines: 38

> And Rich, you erroneously assume that I believe in "God-given" rights.  I do
> not; rights derive out of human nature.

This is consistent with your previous contributions. I would be interested
in your:
           1) definition of human nature

           2) model of human nature

           3) explanation as to why "rights" should be based on this model.
              (If you and a tiger were on an isolated island, your model
              should explain why one should kill the other to survive,
              and who does the killing.)

> First, I am not claiming that Rich wants his Survival Principle to be 
> absolute.  Secondly, there are always people for whom non-cooperation (and
> abuse of other's cooperation) results in better gains than cooperation would.
> Rich therefore has no reason to criticise these people.
> 
> Charley Wingate   umcp-cs!mangoe

The criticism has been made that the "cooperation" and "because I like" basis
for morality are not valid since there will be people that will abuse such
principles, and probably gain as a result. This criticism is invalid for the
following reasons: 

 a)  The validity of a moral system does not rely on one hundred percent
     acceptance on the part of those for which it is intended.

 b)  It makes no sense to reject a moral system on the basis that total
     acceptance is neither guaranteed, nor likely. All moral systems will
     not necessarily be totally accepted, therefore acceptance cannot be a
     criterion for evaluation.

  c) If cooperation is the basis for the system, then non-cooperation
     can be condemned, by the system.

Padraig Houlahan.