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From: padraig@utastro.UUCP (Padraig Houlahan)
Newsgroups: net.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Evidences for Religion (reposting)
Message-ID: <392@utastro.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 19-Jul-85 19:50:01 EDT
Article-I.D.: utastro.392
Posted: Fri Jul 19 19:50:01 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 21-Jul-85 03:42:08 EDT
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Organization: U. Texas, Astronomy, Austin, TX
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> > [Rich Rosen]
> > Hardly.  Chances of survival, overall longterm benefits, life in general,
> > are optimized by cooperation.  Cooperation, and the maximal freedom and
> > benefit for all, are optimized by non-interference.
> 
> Hardly, my foot.  Why should any of these be optimized?  That is, why
> should any of them be optimized, given your outlook?  I may *agree*
> that these things should be optimized, but what reason can *you* give,
> other than bare assertion, that they *should* be?  You have given us an
> "ought" without a reason for the ought, other than just "I say so".
> 
> Perhaps there is a presupposition lurking somewhere in your rationale...
> bolstered, presumably, by wishful thinking that "freedom" (undefined) and
> "benefit" (also undefined - both probably subjective) are of some value.
> Perhaps you are right - but why should anyone believe you are?  You
> can't give a reason, so you end up with proof by assertion.
> 
> Paul DuBois     {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois        --+--

This is not just an assertion on Rich's part. There is empirical evidence
demonstrating the desirability of freedom, and the desirability of
increasing one's chances of survival. Look at any region of the world where
refugees are; They are fleeing totalitarian societies, famine, and
war. This fact is all that is needed to justify Rich's point of view, and
consequently show that freedom etc is of some value.

Padraig Houlahan.