Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/12/84; site aero.ARPA Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxn!ihnp4!qantel!intelca!hplabs!sdcrdcf!trwrb!trwrba!aero!homeier From: homeier@aero.ARPA (Peter Homeier ) Newsgroups: net.religion.christian Subject: Re: Assumed evil in non-christians and assumed good in christians Message-ID: <303@aero.ARPA> Date: Thu, 25-Jul-85 14:13:54 EDT Article-I.D.: aero.303 Posted: Thu Jul 25 14:13:54 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 31-Jul-85 03:43:37 EDT References: <20@ssc-vax.UUCP> <247@ihnet.UUCP> <1275@uwmacc.UUCP> <1707@reed.UUCP> Reply-To: homeier@aero.UUCP (Peter Homeier (MISD)) Distribution: net Organization: The Aerospace Corp., El Segundo, CA Lines: 134 Summary: Morality is nice but more In article <1707@reed.UUCP> purtell@reed.UUCP (Lady Godiva) writes: >In article <1275@uwmacc.UUCP> dubois@uwmacc.UUCP (Paul DuBois) writes: > >>If Christians *are* more moral than non-Christians, it is *exactly* >>because of the power of the Holy Spirit. >>If Christians are *not* more moral than non-Christians, it is >>*exactly* because they are grieving the Holy Spirit by resisting Him. > > I haven't posted to this newsgroup for quite a while but a recent >experience prompted me to say something about this topic. > I've recently become acquainted with several professional musicians. >None of them are Christians as far as I know (in other words - I know >some of them fairly well and know that they aren't Christians, others I >don't know as well and as far as I know they aren't Christians.) Yet I >can honestly say that I've never had a group of Christians treat me more >warmly or be more accepting of me than this group. And I've been in >contact with several Christian groups. These people have given me >tickets to concerts, taken me out with them after concerts, given me >hugs and kisses, talked with me about my life/opinions/problems and >about theirs and given me advice. > Now as far as moral goes - I haven't been following this subject >very much, so I guess I don't really know what you mean by morals. Is >their treatment of me "moral" or just "nice". If it's nice and has >nothing to do with moral, then what exactly is moral. And do Christians >only need to be "moral" and not necessarily "nice"? Or perhaps a better >question is are Christians more moral than non-Christians but not >necessarily nicer? Frankly - you couldn't get a nicer group than this >one, although I'm sure that there are more "moral" groups if you mean >moral in the sense of sex, drinking, etc. > I guess the questions that I have are, what is meant here by >morality, (forgive me if that has already come up in this discussion), >what's the difference between morality and the way these people have >treated me (if there is any), which is more important, morality or >accepting people openly (or is it the same thing), and does being more >moral make you a better person? > On a slightly different topic, these same musicians are, for a >large part, very unhappy. They're doing what they want to do and they >are making a fair amount of money in the process, yet many of them are >not very happy people. This was kind of surprising since a fairly common >statement nowadays is "Having a job that makes you happy is what really >counts." Yet, although these people are very happy with their jobs, a >lot of them don't seem to be happy people. I've been thinking about this >lately and haven't gotten my thoughts about it quite enough together yet >to write them down, but I was wondering if anyone out there had any >thoughts about it. > > cheers - > > elizabeth g. purtell > > (Lady Godiva) Elizabeth, I feel that this is something that you are really struggling with, and finding hard to reconcile. It sounds that you believe and expect that Christians will be more kind and accepting, more nice, than non-Christians, but your recent experiences with your musician friends has seemed to contradict this by demonstrating just as much love as you were shown by your Christian friends. I'd like to contribute some thoughts that may help to resolve this dilemma. First, there is no reason that a non-Christian cannot act with generosity, with compassion, give warm acceptance, hug and kiss kindly, and share intimately with their friends. All of these things are good things to do, and are done by some kindly non-Christians as well as by obedient Christians. I suspect that these musicians have grown deeply in sensitivity and in their emotional natures due to the work that they do in music, and that has given them this remarkable kindness that you have experienced. The big problem with their acts is that they are only good works. Very good works, it is true, but only things done by their own power and virtue. The Bible says that none of our good works are sufficient to approach God's holiness: "Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God which is through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all who believe. ... "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law." -- Romans 3:20-22,28 NKJV So Christians stand not on their own righteousness, although they do live as loving a life as they can, but on the righteousness of Christ and on the free salvation purchased at Calvary. For no matter how beautiful our works may look on the outside, God sees the heart, the hidden motives, the secret desires and intentions, and they are crooked. "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; Who can know it? "I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, And according to the fruit of his doings." -- Jeremiah 17:9-10 NKJV In addition, Christians are called to a higher walk of love than even what you have received from your musician friends. For they expressed love to you who loved them also; but could they love those who hated them? "But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. "And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. "And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. "But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Highest. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore be merciful, just as your Father is merciful." -- Luke 6:32-36 NKJV Finally, I would like to gently suggest that your friends may be so uniformly empty and unhappy simply because they do not have the Lord of Life living in their hearts. It is His love that satisfies, not material possessions or even artistic achievement. But each of us has a special God-shaped hole in our heart, that only His dear love can fill. Until we come to God through Christ, that emptiness remains. But that was because He formed us to have relationship with Him. He designed us to know Himself as our friend, protector, and lover. It is in that deep, intimate, personal relationship with the living Lord that our deepest longings for acceptance and love are finally realized. I hope that you will daily discover more of His love flowing into your heart, through trusting in His wonderful Son, Jesus. In Christ's name, Peter Homeier ARPA: homeier@aerospace