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From: jcr@mitre-bedford
Newsgroups: net.sf-lovers
Subject: What an advanced race would come far to get....
Message-ID: <2763@topaz.ARPA>
Date: Wed, 17-Jul-85 14:17:43 EDT
Article-I.D.: topaz.2763
Posted: Wed Jul 17 14:17:43 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 20-Jul-85 06:15:10 EDT
Sender: daemon@topaz.ARPA
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
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From: jcr@Mitre-Bedford


I just tuned in to SF-Lovers yesterday after several weeks away and was
rather surprised to see the discussion about What an Advanced Race Would
Come Far to Get still going on, albeit somewhat in a somewhat diluted form.

It also seemed to me that one of my earlier comments had been misinterpreted,
so I'd like to reiterate & clarify, if I may.

The discussion began when someone (I forget who) was criticizing the TV
series "V" and asserted something like the following:

     "... there's only one thing that an advanced race would
      cross interstellar space to get, and it certainly isn't
      water. It's slaves."

Now there are really two assertions there, one about the value of water
to an advanced race, the other about the value of slaves to same.

I questioned both assertions, & still do, and it was these assertions I
wished to talk about, NOT the series "V". In response to the first assertion,
I wrote:

> 1) If you're running out of water, and you don't have the
> resources to reclaim it or manufacture it, then you've only one
> option open to you: go get some more! And believe me, you'll go
> whatever distance it takes to get it!

I still stand by this. What other choice does a race have, but extinction?
Note, however, that this still does not explain why someone would try to
get water from Earth as opposed to the rings of Saturn, once they've
arrived in our solar system. Saturn seems a much better source (though
contaminants might prove a problem; we'll hopefully see in the not-too-
distant future).

In questioning the assertion about slavery, I wrote something like:

     Would slaves have any value at all to an advanced race?
     At some point, machine labor becomes cheaper & more
     efficient than slave labor, & once a race has passed
     this point, what use would they have for slaves? Of
     course one might argue that this applies only to physical
     labor, & perhaps they'd have use for intelligent slaves
     in other sorts of labor (nightmare scenario: aliens
     kidnap the entire human race & make accountants of
     us all!).

I have to stand by this too; I've yet to see a convincing line of reasoning
to the contrary. (Please remember that I'm not really discussing the TV
series "V" here, but rather the more general assertions I delineated above.)
Is anyone familiar with any novels or stories in which the taking of human
(or other sentient) slaves by an advanced race is treated with some degree
of depth? I can't recall any right off-hand. If so, what reasons are presented
for such activities?

An interesting possibility occurs to me. Imagine a race whose evolution has
been similar to that of Vulcans, from an emotional & violent past to a very
cold & rational present. But this race has gone even further; they've lost
emotion to the extent that they are now totally unable to create art. How-
ever, they can still appreciate it, and works of art from their distant past
are highly treasured. What would happen if such a race discovered humanity
as we currently are? Might they take us as slaves, forcing us to create
artworks for them? Would such a scheme work? Would the kidnapped humans
create great art? Perhaps so, if suffering contributes to great art. Or
would they turn out trash? Would the aliens know the difference? Has anyone
read anything like this?


				     Regards,
					      Jeff Rogers
					      jcr@Mitre-Bedford.ARPA