Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site tove.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!umcp-cs!tove!israel From: israel@tove.UUCP (Bruce Israel) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Responsibility and blame Message-ID: <287@tove.UUCP> Date: Fri, 26-Jul-85 01:26:59 EDT Article-I.D.: tove.287 Posted: Fri Jul 26 01:26:59 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 28-Jul-85 08:45:23 EDT References: <750@ihuxa.UUCP> <1637@hao.UUCP> <882@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP> Reply-To: israel@tove.UUCP (Bruce israel) Organization: U of Maryland, Laboratory for Parallel Computation, C.P., MD Lines: 81 In article <882@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP> mmar@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP writes: > >The idea that you yourself cause your emotions is quite obviously wrong, Did you ever hear the one about the mathematician who put a complicated theorem on the board, claiming it was obvious? He then looked at it, left the room, and came back two hours later with forty five pages of proof saying "I was right, it is obvious!" :-) I don't consider the statement "you yourself cause your emotions" to be "quite obviously" wrong, and in fact, I consider it "quite obviously" correct! After all, these emotions don't come from anywhere external to your physical being, so obviously they must stem from you internally. Now what I'm saying is a far cry from saying that you CONSCIOUSLY decide on your emotions. We obviously don't wake up in the morning and say "Hmmmm, I think that I'll be depressed today!" :-) > One problem with taking it literally and believing it is that >then you may start blaming other people for their emotions, excessively. Well, if you are on a *blame* trip, yeah, but then again you can blame absolutely anyone for absolutely anything, without regard to rhyme or reason (i.e. I have yet to see uses for blame, things that blame accomplishes that could not be better accomplished in a more constructive way, except for blame's major purpose of making the other person feel wrong and therefore making yourself superior). Anyway, it's not true that the main reason (or even a reason) behind allocating responsibility for something is to determine where the blame goes when something goes wrong! What a self-defeating, losing, attitude!!! > But it's not >the discovery or invention of any contemporary movement. I missed something. OK, who's the wise guy that claimed that they have just discovered the secrets of the universe? Seriously, no one has said that these are new ideas, the age of ideas has very little relevance to its truth or applicability. [ Insert beautiful quote here ] >And so on. Very beautiful writing, and a view which is stimulating and >can be comforting when you need it...but bleak as hell in the long run. Why is it bleak as hell? Oh yeah, I know. If you look at it through a blame framework then what it appears to be saying to you is "When things aren't going the way that you like them, there's no one but you to blame." I find it uplifting rather than bleak, because I look at it through a different set of filters, so that what it appears to be saying to me is that "You are responsible for these areas of your life, so you actually have more power of things than you think you do. Therefore you can make things better than you thought possible. Isn't that wonderful?" Anyway, I find it interesting to notice the filters by which you and others operate, and also educational and empowering, since awareness of these filters is the first step towards stepping out of the limitations imposed by them. Anyone know anything about a concept called General Semantics? I just finished an SF book about ten minutes ago in which this philosophy (very similar to some of the stuff above that I've been shooting my mouth off about) is the dominant theme. > -- Mitch Marks @ UChicago > ...ihnp4!gargoyle!sphinx!mmar -- Bruce Israel University of Maryland, Computer Science {rlgvax,seismo}!umcp-cs!israel (Usenet) israel@Maryland (Arpanet) Enclaimer: The above opinion (no matter how ridiculous, dumb, or asinine) IS intended to be construed as the official opinion and/or policy of my employers, family, friends, and any other organizations I happen to be associated with, no matter how indirectly, including the automobile club and the commercial television networks that I watch.