Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/17/84 chuqui version 1.7 9/23/84; site nsc.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!nsc!chuqui From: chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Re: Re: Re: marriage = commitment Message-ID: <3039@nsc.UUCP> Date: Sat, 27-Jul-85 22:58:40 EDT Article-I.D.: nsc.3039 Posted: Sat Jul 27 22:58:40 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 29-Jul-85 07:11:48 EDT References: <1044@ames.UUCP> <165@plx.UUCP> <203@steinmetz.UUCP> Reply-To: chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) Organization: The Dreamer Fithp Lines: 55 Keywords: urp, ignorance In article <203@steinmetz.UUCP> hammond@steinmetz.UUCP (Steve Hammond) writes: >> My experience with "marriage ruining things" has not to do >> with the "commitment" involved but with the baggage that the culture >> adds to a marriage. >Not being married... >I cannot imagine the kind of "baggage" that Robert speaks of. I do >know that there is no "baggage" clause in the marriage license or >in the vows unless *you* put them there. Why can't a couple continue >to both work and seek active careers just as before? Hoo, boy... Being once married, and no longer, I suggest that you speak not of that which you obviously know nothing. I'd be really amused at the ability of people on the net to be experts on things they've never experienced if it wasn't so irritating. You want baggage? Lets try some of these: parents want grandkids. When you're just living together, they're afraid to ask (directly) because an unmarried kid is worse than no kid at all. Once you are married, though, its time to carry on the gene pool. There can be a LOT of subtle pressure for this, and it creates problems. Kids are a BIG problem. Think about it -- even if the marriage is completely equal, when was the last time you saw a man carry a bowling ball on his stomach, take 6 weeks to 6 months out of his career in maternity leave, go through labor, have morning sickness, or breast feed a child? Equality in children is easy to talk about, but quite difficult in practice. Statistics show that women who take maternity time out, even if they return to work quickly, tend to be promoted less quickly (probably because a company doesn't want to lose their investment if she goes off to have another one). Illegal? sure, but so is laying off a woman over a man because she has a salary to back herself up with, but it happens to married women. Just ask the NLRB. Society throws a lot of subtle pressures on a married couple that set any balance out of line. Women lose their last name, which is a traditional implication of ownership. Even if the woman keeps her own name, many segments of society still make that assumption. It may not seem like a big deal to you, but then you've never gotten mail addressed to 'Mrs. John Smith'. Very subtle, but it is there. And waiters STILL insist on giving the check to the man, right? All these little subtleties add up over time... I can't even begin to explain all of the pressures involved in marriage. What I CAN say is that being there, the difference exists, and it isn't all, or even mostly, in the control of the couple. The couple can make it better, or they can make it MUCH worse (trust me... *sigh*), but all couples have to deal with it. If you haven't been there, you don't have any idea of what it could mean, so don't start making assumptions about things that you haven't been through. It is sort of like having virgins telling me what sex is like... -- :From the carousel of the autumn carnival: Chuq Von Rospach {cbosgd,fortune,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!nsc!chuqui nsc!chuqui@decwrl.ARPA Your fifteen minutes are up. Please step aside!