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From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen)
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: Re: Hurting the other by a "no" (actually emotions/choice II)
Message-ID: <1346@pyuxd.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 28-Jul-85 11:25:32 EDT
Article-I.D.: pyuxd.1346
Posted: Sun Jul 28 11:25:32 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 29-Jul-85 07:48:06 EDT
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>>	Sorry, luv.  If you give someone else responsibility for and
>>control of your actions and reactions (EMOTIONS, is what I'm talking
>>of) then you are living through them, not through yourself.  If this
>>is what you want, then it is your choice.  (gee, there's that word
>>again.)  [HOFF]

> Bull paddies.  I argue that no one has complete control of
> his or her emotional reactions, and moreover, that it is unhealthy
> to seek control.  It is normal to react to the actions of
> another--and if you call that "living through" him/her, fine.
> What disturbs me most about this school of thinking that
> you appear to be espousing is that when you claim Joe has
> complete responsibility for his emotions, you are freeing yourself
> from any responsibility for them, thereby leaving yourself
> free to hurt him with impunity.
> Disclaiming or rejecting responsibility for the effect your
> actions have on someone's emotions may make yourself feel
> better (and more able to become The Best Person You Can 
> Possibly Be), but it strikes me as selfish and insensitive. [POOH]

And you argue it very well!!  Thank you.  I can't help but think that
this school of thinking, claiming people's responsibility for emotions
and everything else that happens in one's life, is just an excuse to pin
blame on other people for their actions (such as the Christian "man is
fallen" line).  "See that woman over there!  I came out of what she's living
through just fine.  SHE has the choice, but SHE won't make it!"  How does
the speaker know the circumstances of the other person?  Did Julie make the
"choice" about "getting out of the marriage" from the very first blow?  If not,
what prevented her from doing so immediately?  Or did she only make the
"choice" once circumstances had given her "enough" of the situation?  

As you say in your last sentence above, such a notion may work very well as a
"belief" (it gives you a positive self-image for sure:  *I* am responsible for
it all!), but as a belief it has little or no basis in reality.  Despite
the three brilliant arguments I've gotten in answer to the question of whether
the second woman above has a "choice".  (Those arguments being:  "Yes", "Yes",
and "Yes it does") :-)
-- 
"Do I just cut 'em up like regular chickens?"    Rich Rosen    ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr