Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site ttidcc.UUCP
Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!ttidca!ttidcc!regard
From: regard@ttidcc.UUCP (Adrienne Regard)
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: side-issue on a side-issue
Message-ID: <607@ttidcc.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 30-Jul-85 17:32:28 EDT
Article-I.D.: ttidcc.607
Posted: Tue Jul 30 17:32:28 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 1-Aug-85 00:22:04 EDT
Organization: TTI, Santa Monica, CA.
Lines: 40

In article <6394@ucla-cs.ARPA> mccolm@ucla-cs.UUCP writes:
>If this is borne out in general (biiiig stretch), does this mean that the
>socially acceptable men-do-the-asking-and-women-do-the-answering is not only
>not the only way things can happen, but actually less preferable than the
>reverse?  Are the mating games among humans screwed up at so basic a level?

You guys have been reading this net. too literally, "more women than men"
and all that.  Wherever do you get the idea that men really do that much
more initiating that women do?

Now, think for a minute.  Men may VERBALIZE more, women less (culturally
imposed bias).  But, as some one else pointed out recently, I, too, have
never been surprised by a "move" made on me in my life, because the non-
verbal communication was more than clear.  Men I know don't make the
mistake of verbalizing a question, since my non-verbal signals quite
clearly indicate that I am "not-interested" or "taken".  And in the past,
when I haven't been "taken", the men I wanted to be aware of it _were_
aware of it, and acted, or didn't take action, according to their
inclination.  Conversely, I've seen unwelcomed "passes" coming because I
could tell from their non-verbal signals that they were ignoring my signals
-- which is really just the same thing as SAYING you are not interested,
and getting asked out again later.

How often, really, have you been "surprised" (as opposed to "insecure")
about the signals you read from either men or women?  Seems to me that if
you are insecure about the signals, then you ask (male or female).  And
there are a few people who are no good at all in expressing themselves, so
once again you ask, male or female.  But, on the whole, is it really that
difficult?

(I MAY be generalizing too far on my own experience, but I've never had
much trouble reading other people, and they don't seem to have trouble
reading me, so I know it holds for a high percentage of my acquaintance.
I'm quite willing to admit it doesn't hold for all.  But then, the question
becomes, what to do about them?  _Ask_, male or female.)

I think women do a heck of a lot of initiating on one level, and very little
on another level.  And men vice versa.  Big deal.  So maybe you want to
switch around the percentages on who verbalizes and who signals?  Fine by
me, but I can't really get excited about it.  Same language, same message.